Living a Fulfilled Life

It was one of those things. I had never written a book before. I had never written anything of extreme length before as a matter of fact, but my wife and I had spent most of 2002 backpacking around the world. And when we came back from that trip, I went back to doing what I had been doing previously which, you mentioned, was a strategy consultant for companies. I did a three month strategy consulting assignment in a very cold climate, and I am not a cold weather person by any stretch, and the entire trip that we'd spent backpacking around the world was in warm climates, and it was kind of the two worlds colliding, because I'd dreamed about traveling around the world since I was a little kid. And so I had, in one hand the nine months of backpacking around the world, which was just perfection, that was nirvana for me, and on the other hand was this experience of going back to a very backbiting client, a very political client, in a very cold weather area, and doing what I didn't love. And it was kind of strange I was coming back on my last flight from that consulting assignment and I thought to myself, what would I tell someone right now is the meaning of life? And I sat down the next – and so I wrote a speech actually on the plane about what I would give if I was giving it to a large audience. The next day I got up and I was going through my morning stretching routine and I thought to myself, you know what, there is more to it than just that speech, and so I started writing, and I sat down and I would type every day. I typed for 21 straight days, very much a stream of conscious typing; never went back and read what I had typed the previous day, and what you read when you open up your copy of the book is pretty much what was done at the end of those 21 days.

Did you ever imagine it would have the kind of success that it has?

Oh, no way. No way. As a matter of fact, when my wife asked me, "What are you doing and why are you doing it?" I – my answer was, "If one person reads this and is positively influenced by it, I would consider the whole thing to be a raging success." And here we are now with 17 foreign translations and it's sold in over 40 countries. You know, to me, that is the greatest validation of what a small world we live in, because there are people in Korea and there are people in the UK and in the US and in Spain, who are having the same emotional reaction to the story and to the question of "Why am I here?" And that, you know, just reinforced it for me what I learned during my travels, and I think every traveler has experienced that it is such a small world out there.

In the book, your realization that you need to change your life, is prompted by three questions, printed on the back of the menu. The one you just mentioned, "Why are you here?" The second one is "Do you fear death?" and the third is "Are you fulfilled?" Why these three questions in particular?

Well, as I said, when I wrote the book, it was very much of a stream of conscious experience. I always tell everyone that, as much as I like to claim that I wrote the book, it as much wrote itself through me as I wrote it, and so why those three particular questions? You know, they just kind of came out of me, Rachel, to be honest with you, but, as I went back, and as I go back and reread my own book, or as I interact with the readers around the world, those – I think that first question in particular is where it all begins, you know, why are you here? Why and so, if you ask it on a personal level, why am I here? To me that's the focal point of our very existence. When you answer that question and you have a good picture of what that means to you, that's when you can really start creating the life that you want. Before that, you're just going with the flow of what everyone else either tells you your life is about, or maybe what you see other people's lives being about, but when you really answer that first one, "Why am I here?" Then you can start creating the life that you truly want to live; a life that fulfills what I consider the very reason why you exist, so that's about that one. In terms of "Do you fear death?" You know, I think – and I can't speak for readers or listeners in the UK or other places around the world, but what I notice a lot here in the US is that people don't necessarily fear death, but what they fear is not living. They fear, on some level, the fact that they may wake up one morning and realize that they are very old and they have done a lot of stuff for a lot of other people; they've kind of followed the marks that everyone else is marching to, but now they're very old and they look at their life and they say, "I never really did what I wanted to do." And so they fear that that day will come some day and they don't want – on a lot of levels they don't want to have that experience, but on a lot of levels they don't change the stuff they're doing either, and so that's why the second question came in. The third one of "Are you fulfilled?" To me that's the goal of life. That's, you know, we have approximately 28,200 days on the planet, statistically speaking here, and to me that's the goal of life, is to walk out at the end saying, "You know what, I feel totally fulfilled. Like I did what I came here to do."

So, how many people actually get to that point? Not many, I would think.

Well, you know, I think it's not a lot, and again I can't speak for other countries. I have traveled a lot in other countries, but I haven't lived in other countries and gotten to know the cultures as well as I'd like versus what I've experienced here in the US, but I'd say a very small percentage in the US get to the end of their life and can say, "I have done it, I have seen it, I am totally fulfilled, and I can walk away now," which is really sad, very sad.

If we could look at those questions in a bit more detail now. The answer to the first question "Why are you here?" you suggest depends on people discovering what you call their 'Purpose For Existing' or PFE. Can you explain that concept?

Sure and it kind of goes to the root of the question. The PFE is, at its essence, the very reason why you exist, the reason why you're born, the reason why you're alive. My personal philosophy and, again, my take with all of my philosophies, with all of my writings, is that if it works for you, great; if it doesn't work for you, great. I think a big part of life is about finding what works for you individually versus hearing what someone else says and saying, "Oh well, you know, I'll just accept it 'cause someone else created it or someone else said it." I think it's all about finding what works for you, but your purpose for existing, your PFE, is that. It's that unique – your reason why you exist and why you're born. I think that each of us arrives here with a unique PFE, and the challenge for us is can we figure out what that is and can we fulfill it by the time our life is over? And what I've found, time and time again, working with people in seminars, and certainly in the feedback that I've gotten from readers, is that once you figure that out, once you've got a good grasp about what that PFE is, that purpose for existing is, life just blossoms, Rachel. I mean, it's almost indescribable in the way that people's lives are enhanced by answering that very question of "Why am I here and what is my purpose for existing?"

So the six million dollar question: how do you find your PFE?

Right, yeah, and it's amazing because I remember when I did my very first seminar, I had structured it as a two-day seminar and I'd structured the vast majority of the seminar on helping people fulfill their PFE, because my assumption was that people knew what they wanted to do; they just didn't know how to manifest it and how to fund it, how to pay for it. And I was floored in the first 20 minutes of my own seminar by the fact that the vast majority of the people in a large audience did not know what their purpose was, and so we of course quickly restructured the event, and restructured all of the event, so that the whole first day for us now is on helping people find it. And so, yeah, how do they find it? You know, there's a lot of exercises and a lot of different things we do. At a very basic level, to me it's about what is it that makes you happy? Here in the US, when we have a three day holiday, so it's a Memorial Day or the 4th of July, Independence Day for us and people have this three day holiday, they run, they're screwy; they race to go do what it is that they like to do and that, to me, is a great way to help you figure out "What is my PFE?" Start with what is it that you like to do. And if you can't start there, so if you don't have a clear picture about what it is you like to do, start with "What is it that I don't like to do?" and think about the opposite of that, so either one of those is at least a starting point for people.

And what happens if there's no option to make any money out of your PFE?

Right and that is by far, Rachel, the most common initial barrier that people have is, "Well, it's impossible to make money doing that." And it's so sad because, having come from the business world, and having spent years of my life as a strategic adviser to all kinds of different companies and all kinds of different industries, what I learned is that there are a million ways to make a million dollars on this planet, and that, no matter what it is that you want to do, there is a way to make phenomenal wealth at it. And the obvious proof of that is that, no matter what your hobby is, there is a place where you go to buy things for that hobby, or there are websites dedicated to that hobby, or there are magazines or whatever, dedicated to that hobby and that proves that someone is making money doing something that is very much in line with what you consider to be the thing that you love. I'm always amazed, here where I live there's a very large expressway and it runs across town, and the traffic is just terrible at the time when most people are commuting. And so there's all these people heading from the north going to the south, and there's all these people from the south going to the north and, what I laugh about that is that, when I do a seminar and it really doesn't matter the type of group or the type of jobs that the people do, I find that 80-90% of them do not like their job, but if you actually query them, they say, "I do not feel satisfied with my job, I don't like my job," and yet here they are doing these long commutes in the opposite directions. And I always thought wow, if they don't like their jobs anyway, couldn't they just co-ordinate it so that they don't have to drive so far, so the people in the south could switch with the people in the north, and they'd both have a job they don't like, but at least they don't have to commute anymore.

The waitress in the book, Casey, tells a story about how green sea turtles can help people focus on their PFE once they've found it, if they're lucky enough to know what it is. Can you tell us that story now? Sure. The essence of the story in the book is, as you said, it's the waitress in the café and she relates a story about swimming in Hawaii. And she's snorkeling actually in Hawaii and she sees a green sea turtle, and she's never seen one before, so she's very excited, and so she swims with the green sea turtle and what she notices is that she can't keep up, and the sea turtle is actually quite a bit faster than she is, and she's surprised about that and so she's tired and she's exhausted and she goes back to the beach. And she comes back the next day with the hope of seeing another green sea turtle and, sure enough, she goes in the water and she does, she sees another green sea turtle. And so this time, instead of trying to swim with and keep up with the green sea turtle, she just floats on the top and she observes the green sea turtle to try and figure out, why is it that I couldn't keep up with the turtle? And what she notices is one of the key life lessons, and this is by far the most commonly quoted back to me piece of the book, which is this green sea turtle part, because what she notices is that the green sea turtle's very much in tune with its environment. When the waves are coming in the face of the green sea turtle, it doesn't paddle and struggle to fight against those waves. However, when the waves are going with the green sea turtle, then it paddles; it uses the energy and the momentum, at the right time, to get the maximum results. And when you think about it in our own lives, we have so many things that are in our face every day, be it email, faxes, newspapers, television, radio, advertisements, our cell phones are ringing; there's just – we are bombarded with distractions every single day and so the more time we focus on the things that are not related to our PFE, so they're not related to what – to the things that would really give us a fulfilling life as we define fulfillment for ourselves, then the less time and energy we have when those things actually come about, so the things that would help us. So if we're wasting a lot of time on email and faxes and advertisements and the rest of this that we don't really care about, opening a bunch of mail that we don't really care about then, when someone calls us up and says, "Hey, let's do something fun," we say, "Oh, I don't have time for that; I've got to take care of all this other stuff," but you've wasted all your time on this other stuff. And so it's about getting in tune with what is really important for you and focusing your time and energy just on those things that are really important to you.

If we can move on to the second question now, "Do you fear death?" How does the answer to that question contribute to finding meaning in your life and work?

I'm not sure culturally how this relates to you folks who are living in other countries but, here in the US, the expectation is that you start working when you're about 18, actually typically you start even earlier, but as you're going to school you get a part-time job, and then you work until you're about 65 and that's typically the age at which people retire. And the expectation is that you'll do the job, whatever you're doing, whether you like it or not, and then when you're 65 you'll have saved up enough money that you can retire and now, now you can finally go live the life that you truly want to live, you can fulfill your PFE at the age of 65. The problem with that is most people die by the age of 75, and statistically they show that a lot of people die shortly after retirement, and so it seems kind of crazy to me that we would spend the vast majority of our life working at jobs we don't like, waiting until we get to this point where we're 65 and are not nearly as physically able to move around, and then we would just get to spend just a minute part, just ten years, working towards fulfilling our life in a way that we would feel fulfilled. It seems crazy to me, and so, instead, you know, I think a much better way to think about life is, write the ending first. What is it that you want to have experienced at the end of your life, so that you could say, "You know what, I am totally satisfied; I am totally fulfilled. I did my PFE; I met and fulfilled my PFE. I can walk away now with no regrets." And then figure out a way to structure your everyday life now so that that happens, versus waiting until you're 65 and then starting to try and do it.

Well, if we move on to the final question that you ponder in The Why Café, "Are you fulfilled?" How does this link in with the previous two questions?

One of the things I like to share with people that are listening, is the fact that when – 'cause often people say, "Well what's, you know, what is this guy's background? Does he – can he really relate to the stuff that he's talking about?" And, let me tell you, that feeling like you're dying every day, I lived that. I was that for a lot of lot of years as I was working in environments that did not fulfill me at all. I remember thinking to myself, and this very much ties into this piece about fulfillment, I remember sitting in different jobs throughout the course of my life, in particular when I was in my early and mid 20s, and watching the clock and thinking to myself, oh my god, I cannot wait for this day to end. And I remember thinking about it in a week type schedule and thinking to myself, I cannot wait 'til Friday arrives, and I did this for years. In reality, when we do that, what we're really doing is we're hoping for our life to go away faster, you know, we're hoping just to get to the good stuff. Everything else we're willing to forego. I mean, I would have been willing to forego my Monday thru Friday if I could have just fast forwarded to my Friday afternoon and getting ready to go to happy hour, and then spending the weekend doing what I loved, and how sad that is. That's five-sevenths of the week that I'm willing to give up because I don't like it, you know, that's not fulfillment. Instead the question is how can you make it – how can you make your life so that Monday thru Friday, and Saturday and Sunday, are spectacular? You're doing something that you love. You get paid for doing something that you love. You feel fulfilled every day then you don't have this fear of death.

In the book, the café owner, Mike, tells the story of a very fulfilled fisherman, which offers a really fresh perspective on job fulfillment. Can you share that story with us now?

Sure. It's a different way to look at retirement, and I know we talked about retirement a little bit earlier, but the essence of it is that there is a very strong dominant business person who arrives at this little village, and I could relate to that strong and dominant business person because that is who I was and what I was for many years, and certainly was the stereotypical personality of the people that I worked with also. And so this very dominant business person shows up at this little village and he notices that, of all the village, all the different people in this village, they all seem relatively happy, but this one particular gentleman seems the most happy and so he asks him, "Why are you so happy? What is it that you do every day?" And the man explains to him that he became a fisherman because he loves to fish, and what he does every day is: he wakes up, he spends time with his wife and his kids, he goes out, he catches some fish, he brings it back, they have lunch together. They usually relax, take a nap, and then they spend the evening or afternoon walking the beach and swimming in the ocean with his kids and he has kind of created this ideal life for himself as a fisherman. And the businessman is very focused on the fishing aspect so he asks him, "Well, you know, are there a lot of fish out there? Can you catch fish every day?" And the fisherman says, "Yeah, sure; I catch fish every day." And so the businessman suggests to him that, what he should do, is he should catch as many fish as he possibly can, and he should bring them back, and he could sell them in the market, and eventually he could buy a couple of boats, and pretty soon what he could have is, he could have a fleet of fishing boats out there and he could make a lot of money. And so the fisherman looks at him and asks him quite point blank and he says, "Well, what would I do with the money?" And the man says, "Well, when you've had enough of it, then you could retire." And so he says to him, "Well, what would I do when I retired? Could I possibly maybe still fish because I became a fisherman 'cause I like to fish?" And the businessman explains to him, "Well, you could probably still fish, but there wouldn't be as many fish because now you've had this fleet of fishing boats out there." And so he says, "Well, can I spend time with my wife?" And he says, "Well, sure if you want to." "And how about time with my kids?" And he explains, "Well, you probably could, but your kids would be grown by then and so, you know, they really wouldn't be around as much." And the nut of it is that the man is trying to – the businessman is trying to create this vision in the future for the gentleman of what he could attain, and here the fisherman has it already, you know, there's no need for him to do all the stuff that the businessman suggests 'cause he's already retired, as he would define the term. He's already doing what he loves and spending time with his wife and his kids; he doesn't need to save up a lot of money to go and do that.

So what's the message?

Well, you know, I think the message is that to not get caught up in everyone else's definition of success. It's not about living in poverty; it's not about living in a village, although if that's what you want to do that's great; it's about defining success for yourself and then cracking a life around that, versus listening to other people's definition of success. I've met many people who say that what they really want to do is travel. Travel seems to be a huge factor in people's lives. I don't know. I'm starting to think maybe it's just a part of who we are as humans. That we are on this amazing planet and we want to see it before we go. It's like 95% of an audience, statistically, will tell me that travel's part of what I call their "Big Five for Life." The question is then, how do you create a life where that is part of your life? And it's relatively easy, Rachel, and I spent nine months of my life, and we backpacked around the world, and it was 40 dollars a day for two people. I never ever thought that you could travel around the world on 40 dollars a day until I was out there doing it. We met so many people. I remember one gentleman in particular, he'd worked as a customer service rep in a call center somewhere in the UK, and he would work for a year and a half or two years and he would save up his money, live relatively cheaply, and then he would save up that money and then he'd go travel for six months or nine months, and then he'd come back and do it again. There's all kind of ways to manifest this reality that you want, but it goes right back to what we talked about earlier, you can't manifest it until you know what it is.

It takes a lot of bravery to take those steps though, doesn't it?

You would think so, and it seems a little challenging when you're going to take that first step and you've never taken it before. There's certainly ways to mitigate that. One of the things I teach is something called the 'Big Five for Life,' and I hope we'll have time for that later, but the essence of it is, when you're not sure how to take that first step, you simply need to find someone – you need to find a Who. Who has done, seen, or experienced what you want to do, so your experience, and you talk with them and you ask them, "What was it that you did? What gave you the courage to take the first step?" Because everything seems challenging when you know nothing about it, but if you find a Who, who has done, seen or experienced, now it's simply a matter of imitating what somebody else has done. I remember, before we left on our trip, I found this website called ChickenBus.com, and I still owe that person a copy of my book and an email and a very long thank you note, because – and I don't know who they are, but I remember doing some searches on the web and I came across their site, and they had basically just chronicled their experiences of their adventure around the world, and I thought, my goodness, if they can do it, I can do it. And so it's, you know, it seems a little challenging at the start, any time you're going to do something that you don't know how to do, but when you realize that there are thousands of people, tens of thousands, maybe even millions who have done what you're talking about doing, suddenly it's not so challenging. The stuff that people do every day is more challenging than the stuff that they want to do, they just don't realize it.

Well despite its somewhat antiestablishment message, many companies have taken your book to heart, haven't they, and distributed it among their employees...

They have.

...including IBM, American Express, Boeing, American General Finance, how can the lessons in your book be applied positively in a business context?

You know, certainly this concept of purpose for existing, and it's funny you asked that, because I'm actually just finishing up my third book, which is all about a lot of the concepts that I've been teaching and are certainly in The Why Café or The Why Are You Here Café and applying them to the business world. These are – I was amazed, Rachel, actually, having come from the business world I did not think that the book would be brought into the business community, and I underestimated the great leaders in great companies. Because what great leaders and great companies see, and know, is that people are far more motivated and they are far more productive, if their personal purpose for existing, so the reason that they exist, is linked to organizations. These people want to be part of something. They do. They get great satisfaction, you know, why is it that you have all these people that dress up in the same color clothes and they have T-shirts that have the same name of their favorite sports team? It's because they get the satisfaction of being affiliated with something else. They want this affiliation and they want to be part of something, and so, what great companies do, is they say, "This is what we're all about." They define themselves very clearly with their purpose for existing. Why does that company exist? And then, what they do is, they inspire people to join that company and maybe 'cause the people that are inspired to join, their purpose for existing is very similar. And, you know, a classic example of that to me is, there's an airline here in the US called Southwest Airlines, and they just have a great fun culture. They're all about getting people to their destinations in a fun way. It's not bureaucratic, it's not stifling, and it's not all just stuffy business people. It's fun, and so they attract fun people, who love to travel, to join that airline as employees, simply because the purpose of the airline and the purpose of the people is very similar. And I think that's why the book has resonated so well with companies, is because they see that people are more productive, they're more efficient and they're happier at work, they don't leave as often, so their retention rates are better, all of which, by the way, translates into higher profits for a company if some of the principles that are in the book are applied to the business setting.

Well if we could just talk now about the 'Big Five for Life' that you mentioned earlier, could you explain what exactly those are?

Sure. This is something that came about when The Why Café was first completed. I started to get a lot of requests for speaking, and I didn't want to stand up on a platform and talk about the book because I didn't want to spoil the experience for readers. So I gave a lot of thought to, how can I convey something that is equally powerful, but not give away the book? And what I came up with was this technique that I teach now, called the 'Big Five for Life' and it's actually based on an experience that I had, my wife and I had in Africa while we were backpacking through Africa. So the essence of it is when you're in Africa and you go on Safari, everyone wants to see the African 'Big Five' and it's five particular animals. People gage the success of their Safari experience, based on how many of these five they've seen, so if they see three out of the five, it's marginal; four out of the five, it's good; five of the five, a raging success. And so, when I came back to the US and I was giving some thought about how to kind of create some of these same experiences for a live audience, I started teaching the 'Big Five for Life' and it's the five things that you want to do, see, or experience in your lifetime before you die. And it's the five things that are so important to you that, if you were able to do, see or experience them in your lifetime before you die, that you would be able to say that your life is a success, as you define success for yourself. And that's a really critical piece of this, because it's not about your boss defining success, or your parents or your neighbor, or even your spouse; this is about you defining success for yourself, and figuring out the five things that, if you did so experience them, that on your deathbed, in those last few moments of your existence, you could say, "You know what, no matter what else I did or I didn't get to, I got to my 'Big Five for Life,' and therefore my life was a success." And it is amazing, Rachel, how your life changes when you start to view it from that perspective.

Do you help people find their Big Five?

I do. I do. As a matter of fact I have a worldwide Big Five select call, so people could go to my website – I don't know if you want to give it or if you want me to give it, but they could go and they can register and we talk about it every two weeks because, to me, this is what it's all about. It's about taking a look at your life and saying, "What is it that I want?" and the Big Five for Life is a great way to do that. PFE sometimes can be very broad for people. "Wow, what is my purpose and my purpose for existing?" It seems challenging sometimes for people to get their hands around that, but they can definitely get their hands around "What are the five things I want to do, see or experience before I die?"

Well, let's just give your website address now. It's www.whycafe.com and your book is also available there, isn't it?

It certainly is. It certainly is. Yeah, and I would love to invite all of the people who are listening, your listeners and your readers to join that call. I'll give you a great example of why that's so powerful. Imagine, if you will, that you've figured out your 'Big Five for Life' so the five things that you want to do, see or experience before you die. And then you take a look at your calendar or your Day-Timer or your planner for next week, and you circle everything that you're doing, everything that's scheduled, that's filling your time, that supports your 'Big Five for Life'. And the funny thing about it, Rachel, is that when I do this for the live audience and I have them actually do it in real time; I have them pull out their calendars. As soon as I say that and they open up their calendars, you know what I hear? Laughter because people – and I ask it, I always ask them, "Why are you laughing?" And they say "Because there's nothing on my calendar." You know, that to me is the great microcosm of what life is like for most people. They've nothing on their calendar for next week and, you know what, next week becomes next month, which becomes next year, and that means that they're going to live a life in which they don't fulfill the five things they want to do, see or experience, that they've defined will make their life a success, and therefore they're going to die at the end, and their life won't be a success in their own life, and in their own eyes, and how terrible that is. And that's why it's so powerful because you start totally redefining the stuff you put on your calendar based on how you define success for yourself.

Well, I think everyone who reads your inspirational book and articles can see how useful these ideas are, but it's often hard to actually follow through on change, isn't it? And you even acknowledge this in the epilog of The Why Café. What tips do you have for listeners who might need that extra push to improve their lives?

Right, yes, towards the end of the book I mention that, and I've certainly lived this where I've seen so many people who want to make a difference, they want to change their lives; even people who have taken the time to craft out their 'Big Five for Life'. And what they struggle with is exactly what you just mentioned, "So how do I make it my reality?" And, you know, there's two big drivers of human behavior: one is pleasure and one is pain. And the sad truth is that people are more motivated by the desire to eliminate pain than they are for the desire to obtain pleasure. Most people's jobs are painful, but not terribly painful, and the pleasure is something that they think about, but they don't have firsthand experience with it, so it seems like it's going to be pleasurable, but they don't know exactly, so, what I suggest for listeners who need that extra push is two things in particular. One is to write the ending and experience it. If you're living the life you are now and it's probably not going to change, and this is going to be your existence forever, put yourself in a nice quiet room somewhere and think about what would – what are you going to feel like at the end of your life when you're 80 years, or even when you're 75 years old, at the very end of your life think about how you're going to feel if your life is the same then as it is now, because that starts to bring people to the pain point. They start to realize like, "Wow, I'm going to be seriously disappointed or dejected, or feel like I really missed out on something." However you're going to feel, but that will start to bring that pain into focus, because to me that's part of it. It's part of eliminating that pain, since we know that's the big driver. Of the two drivers, that's the more prevalent driver then it's a matter of getting that pain into focus, "What is that going to look like for me if I don't have that experience?" Write that ending and live it, experience it emotionally for a little bit, and see how that feels for you, 'cause that will drive you to make a change in your behavior. And then the second thing, and this goes to the pleasure side of it, which is start to taste the success that you really want to have in your life. You know, it's one thing to say, "Oh, I would love to travel," but you've never traveled, you know, you can't grasp it. I ask people all the time who have taken extended trips, so they've taken a nine months' sabbatical or a yearlong sabbatical, etc, "How is it that you were motivated to do that for the very first time?" And you know what they all tell me, Rachel? They all tell me that they had some taste of it somewhere. They took a three week trip somewhere or they took a three month trip somewhere. Somehow, somewhere, they got a taste of what they really wanted out of life and, once they got a taste of it, it was so strong that they could not envision the rest – living the rest of their lives without having done it again. So whatever is on your 'Big Five for Life list', whatever you define as your PFE, get a taste of it, because the more you have a taste of it, the more real it will be, and the more you're going to want to be motivated to make that your reality.

John Strelecky, thanks very much for joining us today. The Why Café is published by Da Capo Press and Piatkus. You can read it in one sitting and it may change your life, so it's well worth getting. John's website again is www.whycafe.com. You can buy his book there and find a range of additional material, including a CD on the 'Big Five for Life'. At Mind Tools we also have a number of really useful products to help with life evaluation and goal setting. Just take a look on www.MindTools.com. Next month I'll be interviewing another inspirational expert, so do join me then. Goodbye.