Connect First

Many people… And one of the reasons I wrote the book is that, as a psychologist and as a consultant, what I would hear over and over again is that people feel devalued, disrespected, as if they don't belong. They wonder why they're going to work – their paycheck is good but often it's not enough [and] morale dips, people don't stay engaged in their work.

So, either as a boss or as a worker, the value in being connected at the human level is one that is supreme. It gives us a reason to show up, to work hard, and to do our best.

Rachel Salaman: At its most basic, is this is a simple case of talking more to each other and messaging less?

Melanie Katzman: Well, I guess you could say that. It's about having quality conversations, for sure.

It's about talking more, but I also have a section in the book on using all of your senses: it's listening (it's not just talking, it's listening), it's hearing, it's really deeply trying to be present with the people that you're with, even if you're not in the same room. And we can talk more about that.

You know, it's about paying attention to your behaviors and the impact they have on other people. Oftentimes we have unintended negative impacts on those people around us, and we could have positive ones, but we need to set a clear intention.

Rachel Salaman: Now I'm sure all of us have had the experience of emailing a colleague who's just sitting opposite. As a psychologist can you help us understand why it often feels easier to write a text or an email to a colleague, rather than pick up the phone or walk over to their desk?

Melanie Katzman: Well, I don't even know if you have to be a psychologist to know that it's sometimes a lot easier to have a bit of distance between you and the person who's receiving your message.

Either it's easier because you're triple-tasking or double-tasking, you want to get your thoughts together, you think it's going to be more efficient because "I'll just toss an email or a text to somebody." But ultimately it isn’t more efficient.

I mean, sometimes, of course, we have to send a text or an email. But too often people don't pick up the phone and invest a few minutes in having a conversation, or [they don't] get up from their desk and just speak to the person who has the information that they need.

So, we don't want to always be trading efficiency in the moment for what can be long-term efficiency, and being able to get things done because we've made that connection.

Rachel Salaman: Because something that feels like it's going to be more efficient actually just creates all sorts of misunderstandings.

Melanie Katzman: Absolutely, Rachel. I tell people, "If you're on your third round of email exchanges, just pick up the phone," really.

Rachel Salaman: Yes, absolutely. So why did you decide to write this book now in particular?

Melanie Katzman: It's a great question. I've been working as a psychologist with a private practice – I see people clinically, they come to my office and they share their deep concerns and emotional struggles, and their desires in the workplace, and in the world.

And, often, in the same day, I'm going to companies where I'm facilitating discussions between board members, or recently merged groups, or growing or downsizing companies, and one of the things that I found is that, no matter where I was, the conversations were very similar.

The lessons – that either I was learning or I was offering – had a certain repetitive quality, in that there were certain things that people needed to know. They seemed so simple, and yet it wasn't happening.

So this book is a codification of the many lessons I've learned over the years, and it's an effort to make work easier and happier for people.

And the "why now" really is twofold: it's at a point in my career where I really want to be able to give back so many of the learnings; and it's also at a time when so much is being discussed around sustainability.

And I believe human sustainability requires attention to the human energy at work, and we only get energy at work from the people around us and the work that we do that has meaning.

Rachel Salaman: Now if we could talk a little bit about the structure of your book, as the subtitle says, it's "52 Simple Ways to Ignite Success, Meaning and Joy at Work," and it is 52 short chapters, and each one has tips and cautions and case studies. But there's also an arc that runs through the book – could you talk a little bit about that?

Melanie Katzman: Absolutely. So the book is set up [as] "52" so that you could do a chapter a week if you wanted to have your own kind of year-long development plan. But it’s also so that you can mix and match and dip in and get the information you need when you need it.

But the arc is that you start with a smile; it ignites connection biologically, automatically. And the book ends with a dream. And in the middle there are all the different steps that actually enable you to, on a first point, be able to do the simple things, the basics that connect us.

It builds through the book, in terms of establishing yourself, then loyalty, clearing conflict, fighting fear, and then really facing the future and leveraging your position for a greater impact.

So the book gives you the tools and the steps, that seem simple at each particular point, but ultimately lead you to a place where the desire to have a big impact, to make a difference, becomes very possible – because I've shown you how to do it in actions that don't take a lot of time and don't cost money.

Rachel Salaman: So let's look at some of the content now. Part one is called "Establish Respect," and the first chapters of this cover such advice as "smile," which you mentioned earlier, “say please and thank you,” and “use people's names."

In your experience, do people really need reminding about these rather basic building blocks of interaction?

Melanie Katzman: Yes, is the short answer.

Rachel Salaman: That's surprising though, right?

Melanie Katzman: Well it's surprising, except that it's so recurrent that I'm no longer surprised. I was just recently on a panel with the COO of a tech company, who said that she was reminded when she read the book that she had stopped saying please and thank you, that she no longer smiles at people because she's always in a hurry.

You know, too often I think we have our devices – we're looking at them, you're standing in the elevator riding up to your office and you're not even having a conversation in that kind of confined environment with the people that are around you.

So, I think we're trading speed and, as we said, efficiency for kind of civility. And people do forget to say please or thank you, and certainly using people's names. It's a neural hack, it switches people on but, somehow, we don't do that.

Rachel Salaman: You mentioned earlier about the importance of using all of our senses, and that's what part two of your book is about; it has five chapters, one for each sense. Could you tell us about one of the tips you share in this section?

Melanie Katzman: I'm going to say, "see everybody." You know, it is unfortunately too common in the workplace that we enter our office (and we even go into a meeting) and we see the people we think are important and we don't see everybody [else] in the room.

So, I encourage people to not only make eye contact but to really scan and see – who are you not seeing? Are you not seeing the receptionist who sees you every morning or the janitor who's cleaning your office?

Are you walking into a meeting and only talking to the people that you know, or want to know, and not making an effort to introduce yourself to the people that are around you? So, the act of being seen is one of the greatest ways of demonstrating respect, and I encourage everybody to truly look at who is around them and make sure that that's an inclusive scan around.

So, I would say "seeing" is my first and foremost.

Rachel Salaman: Well, something a bit different now. I thought it was interesting that – more than once, actually – you suggest it's a good idea to care less about things, and sometimes do nothing rather than act. We come across this in Chapter 18, which is titled, "Don't Just Do Something, Sit There, Luxuriate in Not Having an Immediate Solution." So how does that approach help us connect?

Melanie Katzman: Well, we are so trained to act, and sometimes inaction is the most powerful action.

I talk a lot in the book about tuning in: being intentional, reading the room, reading yourself, taking a check on what's going on, how are you feeling, which enables you actually to then have deeper thoughts.

Too often we are running to do and not sitting and listening to others, seeing what other solutions might be bubbling up, getting a sense of what might be obstacles for other people or obstacles for ourselves.

So, I encourage people in the book to give themselves the opportunity to really allow solutions to emerge from other places, and also to be able to identify what might be going on that isn't immediately obvious. Because, if we jump into action, we may be staying at too superficial [a] level.

Rachel Salaman: Well that may come as a relief to the over-conscientious among us, and so might the tips in Chapter 21, which is, "You Don't Always Have to be Right, Trust Me on This, I'm Not Wrong," you say. How important is it that we give ourselves permission to get things wrong?

Melanie Katzman: Oh, it's so important! I mean, how else do we innovate if we don't take risks? And if we are confining ourselves to perfection, we are losing the opportunity to really stretch our imagination, to experiment, to learn, to stumble, to pick ourselves up and try again.

When there's an overreliance on being right, you cut down the opportunity to have a truly exploratory conversation, to uncover new solutions. You don't become the person that people want to work with, that's for sure – [I] find it very unusual to have somebody who says, "Oh I really want to work with that boss or that co-worker, they're always right!" You want people to be clever, but you don't want them to be so steadfast in their views that there's no room for anyone else's.

You know, finally, I would say that one of the dangers in any organization or in any group is if people don't admit that they're wrong, or that there's a problem, then you can't find the solution.

And there's so many different ways in which I think companies have struggled because people didn't bring the problem to the forefront, and that's because there's a fear of being wrong, and we need to normalize the fact that sometimes you're not always right.

Rachel Salaman: With this, and the earlier tip about not always taking action, it may sometimes be difficult to get the balance right between holding ourselves to high standards, which most of us want to do, or trying too hard or not trying hard enough. So do you have any advice to help us get that balance?

Melanie Katzman: It's a really good question, Rachel. There's an optimal level of anxiety, if you will. We need to be switched on enough that we are engaged and focused, but not in a state of panic.

And I think each person has to play with that dial for themselves. That's part of the reason why sometimes I encourage people to just take a beat, pause and see what's going on. Are you just getting whipped up because everybody around me is feeling overly anxious?

Because in fact, from a neurobiological perspective, excitement and anxiety feel very much the same: those butterflies in your stomach can be your engine kicking in for motion, or it can be anxiety kicking in for you to run in the opposite direction.

So, some of this is very personal, but recognize that you don't need to be "amped up" all the time to be effective. I certainly see in my practice that there are people who, if they're not feeling anxious, are worried that they're not doing enough. And that almost poisons you, because you end up in such a high state of stress that you wear down your physical immune system, and I think it also wears down your intellectual agility as well.

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Rachel Salaman: So, part four is about growing loyalty, and there are lots of really practical tips here. In Chapter 24, which is called, "Offer the Gift of Time: We All Have Too Much to Do," we learn how to make the most of meetings. What does this have to do with growing loyalty? And what are some of your more unusual tips here?

Melanie Katzman: So, in terms of growing loyalty, it's about having a sense that the people around you, [that] they respect you and they respect you because you respect them.

Time is such a valued currency at work, no one ever seems to have enough of it and when you give people time you are giving them control over their life, their work. If you give people a sense of how their day is going to play out (or their week), they can manage and have a sense of autonomy. That, for many people, is associated with greater satisfaction at work.

So, I say give the gift of time because it is a way of giving somebody something that they deeply value.

Rachel Salaman: And that translates to meetings because your tips mean that you're not wasting time in meetings, is that right?

Melanie Katzman: Exactly, and I feel too often… If we have a meeting for an hour, it will last for an hour. So I encourage people to be very focused in their meetings, sometimes have them be standing meetings.

And by "standing" I don't mean recurrent, I mean stand, so that everybody is not so comfortable in their chair or hiding their phone under the table and texting – you stay standing, you do what you need to do, and you go back to action.

So I encourage people to not book their meetings back-to-back (because you actually do need to transition between them), to make them short, to have somebody who is the meeting minder who's giving people kind of progress reports as you're going on, to stay efficient, and not be afraid to stop the meeting at the point that you have completed your activities. There's no reason to fill the time if you don't need to.

The person who can say to someone in the office, "You know what, you're finished for today, you can leave," is somebody who is, believe me, going to have a loyal following.

Rachel Salaman: You also talk about narcissism in this section about growing loyalty. Could you talk a bit about narcissism in the workplace and the best ways to deal with it?

Melanie Katzman: You know, oftentimes the people who are "strutting their stuff," the peacock who seems to be telling everybody about their latest accomplishments, is really the person who is insecure, is needing more reassurance. And it's exactly what we don't want to do.

So, the person who seems to be boasting isn't the one who you want to say, "Great job." But, in fact, most egos could use a little stroking, and the ones that are so desperately asking for your attention need it even more. What I find is that our knee-jerk reaction is to avoid or deny praise or appreciation for the people who seem so desperately in need.

So I encourage people to stroke another individual's narcissism. We're all a little bit narcissistic. And in the chapter I have two kinds of narcissist: one is kind of the "everyday narcissist" – as I say, we all are a little narcissistic sometimes – and then it's the more "toxic narcissist."

And I go into some more detail in the book about how to manage that. Because oftentimes we are attracted to those people who can kind of bring us in because they're so charismatic, because they are selling their idea. But then, when we actually get in close, we realize it's more about them and not about us, and that gets a bit trickier to navigate.

Rachel Salaman: Well, humor also makes an appearance in this part of the book. And you make the point that humor is a great way to connect but we need to be careful about using it in the workplace. What do we need to consider in treading that fine line?

Melanie Katzman: So, one caution is let's all laugh together, let's not laugh at anyone. The other is to be culturally sensitive, that different workplaces will have an aggregation of personalities on a whole spectrum of different styles as well as different backgrounds. So, be mindful of what is going to be acceptable for the people around you.

Rachel Salaman: So, if humor is on one end of a spectrum, perhaps we would find conflict at the other end, and resolving conflict is the topic of part five. What do you think is the most universal and effective tip in this section?

Melanie Katzman: So, one of the cautions I give, and I hope your listeners will take on, is that having a good relationship means you have had conflict, you have dealt with it, and you've grown stronger because of it.

So, too often we try to avoid conflict as a means of having a strong relationship, and I think it's just the opposite – we need to go into the conflict.

One of the ways of opening up the conversation, that needs to happen when there's tension, is to think about what is it (or actually to feel about what is it) that I am responding to. Am I feeling devalued? Am I feeling slighted or marginalized? "Hmm, if I'm feeling that way, is it possible that other people might be feeling that way as well?"

That may be a really good entrée into a conversation in which you're checking and saying, "You know what, I just want to again hit the pause button and say to a colleague or colleagues, 'This is what I see going on, this is some of the ways I'm reacting. Is anybody else having some of these same feelings?'"

They may not be, but they may have different ones. And by identifying what you're experiencing, you're opening up the opportunity for others to share how they feel as well. But we often end up in situations where we get caught up in the dialog that's going on in our head, and we don't actually test out those hypotheses in the workplace.

So, I encourage people to label for themselves what they're experiencing, take that data, test it out in the environment, and open up the conversation, because that will generally be the first step in clearing the conflict.

Rachel Salaman: And, of course, it might lead on to apologizing from someone, and you include a chapter on that. Apologizing obviously is a classic bridge-building device, but sometimes it's hard to do. So, what can you tell us about when and how we should apologize?

Melanie Katzman: So, apologies need to be sincere. Often they are done too late, too quickly, or without enough detail. So I suggest that when you make an apology, to the extent possible, do it in person, or at least do it on the phone, not simply through a note.

Be specific about what you're apologizing for, so it's recognizing that this is what I see as having been an error, so that the person who's receiving the apology has an opportunity to actually validate that that was what the problem was – because sometimes you're apologizing for one thing but actually it's something different that had the negative effect, and it's important to learn about that.

So, a quality apology not only is specific, but also then perhaps includes ways in which it could be avoided, or an opportunity to have a shared discussion about what could be done differently.

The one thing I encourage everyone not to do is to say, "I'm sorry you're feeling that way," or, "I'm sorry that this had this effect on you," because that's not an apology. That's really saying, "You know what, Rachel, I'm so sorry that you're so sensitive." That's not an apology! That doesn't work.

Rachel Salaman: Yes, but you do say there's one circumstance when we should not apologize, and that is when we're negotiating.

Melanie Katzman: Yes.

Rachel Salaman: Which is another kind of interaction that many of us find difficult. I thought you had some great tips on negotiating a pay rise or a bonus while focusing on mutual wins, including what to ask for when more financial compensation isn't really an option. Could you share some of your thoughts on that?

Melanie Katzman: Absolutely. So, first of all, I don't think that we need to adopt an apologetic attitude, as you say. Too often people go in saying, "I'm so sorry but I need to ask for this." It's like no, if you are asking for what you're worth be direct about it.

If the compensation on a monetary basis isn't what you wanted, or even if it is, there's still an opportunity to ask for inclusion in certain distribution lists, a seat at certain tables, an opportunity to perhaps have meetings with the press, a chance to have introductions to people both within and outside of the company.

I ask people to write down what they want ahead of time, so when you go in you're not suddenly flustered, you know what the number is. But also is there a corporate policy around travel and is part of your work life going to be made easier if you get to have use of a company car? Or you can get certain things expensed – is there a gym in the building that the company could reimburse?

So there are benefits that sometimes an organization has, it could be training opportunities, that maybe you should somehow know about it, but you're not told about it. So do the research. Go in, and when you're having these conversations, be prepared to ask for things that include any of the ones that I've just mentioned.

And if you don't get what you want the first time around, try asking for a time to revisit the conversation so you don't have to wait a full year.

So, identify the things that you want to achieve, what you want to give to the organization, and then a chance to review that, and along with that review, the opportunity to increase your compensation or your benefits.

Rachel Salaman: Part six of your book is about fighting fear, and I particularly liked the chapter on "Inviting Others In," which you say is for people whose door is open but nobody is coming in. What can someone do in that situation to build connections?

Melanie Katzman: So, there's a number of different ways. One is to actually personalize the invitation, so that you either walk the hall or send a note and say, "I would like you to come in, let's just talk. You're the new intern, you're the new hire, you're somebody who's just transferred from another office."

It's one thing to say, "My door is always open." It's another thing to say, "Rachel, shall we have coffee at 10 o'clock?"

Or to be able to say, "I'm the boss, I know it's hard for people to come and pitch their ideas to me, but the first Wednesday of every month there's coffee with Kelly. Come in and tell me what you see. It doesn't matter what your position is – this is an opportunity for you to have an audience, if you will, with somebody who's in a senior leadership position."

I also encourage people to create spaces where these conversations can happen. So sometimes we get into a room, but it doesn't feel conducive to having the kinds of conversation once we've invited someone in.

So bring people into a room… Sometimes we have to sit in a circle, it's a little unusual in some companies, but you know what, it's OK – move the furniture around, [it] opens up the air and opens up the space, literally and figuratively, for people to be able to start to connect.

Rachel Salaman: Do some of these tips translate to lower levels down the hierarchy as well?

Melanie Katzman: Yes. I mean, I think that we all have an opportunity to connect and to make a difference with the people around us.

You know, bosses have feelings too. So if you're sitting in a town hall and your boss has just given a big presentation, or you're in a small start-up and you see the boss working really hard, they also would like to hear, "You know what, great job." Or "I really appreciate how hard you've been working." Or "Thanks for making this happen for us as a team." I think that's another place in which we forget that appreciation and recognition goes in both directions.

Today we have a lot of conversation around, "Oh, the millennial versus the matures in the workplace and tensions between them." And my experience is that a lot of people are aiming for the same thing – they want quality of life, they want some balance, and they want to do a good job.

If you are the younger person in the organization and you have something to say or idea to share, don't be shy! You don't want to present it to somebody in an intrusive way, but on the other hand, it's the unusual person who doesn't welcome someone who, in a very heartfelt way, says, "You know, I'd love to talk to you about X. I see that our company is doing this and I happen to have noticed that there's three new apps out there, and do you want to sit and hang out and see what looks like on my phone?"

I mean, it's an amazing thing about what perhaps the technology somebody is accessing at a more junior level, can do or say or teach someone who's at a more senior level.

Rachel Salaman: The last part of your book is called "Have a Big Impact," and that speaks to the "success, meaning and joy" in your subtitle. What are your most significant points here?

Melanie Katzman: So, there's an opportunity every day, no matter what the position is that you're in, to have an impact on the people around you. And that's by recognizing, respecting, including people.

There's also the opportunity to ask tough questions. And to sit in your office and to think about, "Hmm, is the way that we are conducting what we're doing the most effective, inclusive, sustainable?" Sometimes the way that we have an impact is the questions that we ask, or it's the people that we bring together, or it's what we have to share.

So, sometimes the impact you can have is actually giving people an electric socket that they can plug into when they've come in from the community, or the way that you can have an impact is by sharing out information or including other people in your training sessions.

So there's so many different ways in which we can open our eyes to what we have as our resources in whatever job we're in, and to take a look around us and see who might benefit from the knowledge I have, the relationships I have, or in fact some of the tangible assets that I have in my organization. So, having a big impact sounds "big," but actually it is a series of small things that come together and really leverage your position for [a] larger and larger, rippling, positive effect.

Rachel Salaman: Well that's a whistle-stop tour of your 52 ways to "connect first," bringing us back to the title of your book. If you were to pick one or two of the most effective ones that people could start using today, what would they be?

Melanie Katzman: So, there's two that I'll suggest. One is "got it" – the two words that make a huge difference in the workplace.

So, given that we work often on our computers – we're not "co-located," we're sending messages out, requests are going all over the globe – if we don’t know that someone has received our request or our message we can be left wondering, "Did my message get received, are they dealing with my request, when am I going to find out the answer?"

To go back to something we spoke about earlier, which is the ability to manage one's time, not knowing whether or not your message or request has been received can spiral your internal thinking into all sorts of negative places: "They don't care about me, I'm not a priority, this person never does the work I ask them to do."

So I encourage people to say, "Got it." And [it's] even better, to say, "Got it, and here's when I'm going to give you the response that you're looking for." So that [way] you're honoring the request and giving people the ability to manage their workload relative to your response. So that's one.

The other is the question of, who else should be in this meeting? It's easy to have the same people recycling the same ideas, and when putting together a meeting or putting together a project plan, take time – I keep saying time because it's so important to put in those moments where you stop [and] take the time – and think about, "Other than the obvious, who has a related perspective? How can I get an introduction to them, how can I bring them in and make them comfortable? How can I break out of my usual comfort zone by bringing in voices that would not normally be here?"

And that expands our impact and also our knowledge base.

Rachel Salaman: Dr Melanie Katzman, thanks very much for joining us today.

Melanie Katzman: Thank you so much for having me, Rachel.

The name of Melanie's book again is, "Connect First: 52 Simple Ways to Ignite Success, Meaning, and Joy at Work." I'll be back in a few weeks with another Mind Tools Expert Interview from Emerald Works. Until then, goodbye.