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Transcript
Rachel Salaman: Hello, I'm Rachel Salaman. As a business consultant, Bruce Tulgan helps people become indispensable at work. In the middle of a global pandemic, when jobs feel less secure than ever, this seems like a good idea – whether you're running a company, you're a mid-level manager, or just starting out. So we're excited to talk to Bruce today. He'll be sharing some tips and tricks with us.
Bruce is the founder and chairman of Rainmaker Thinking Inc., a workplace research and training firm. And he's the author of the best-seller, "It's Okay to Be the Boss." His latest book is called, "The Art of Being Indispensable at Work: Win Influence, Beat Overcommitment and Get the Right Things Done."
And he joins me now on the line from Newhaven, Connecticut. Hello, Bruce.
Bruce Tulgan: Hello. Thank you so much for including me.
Rachel Salaman: Thanks so much for being with us today. Now, your book is about becoming a "go-to" person, someone indispensable at work. Could you describe a good example of such a person?
Bruce Tulgan: Yes. What I have studied over the years is what works and what doesn't work in the workplace. And the real go-to people are the ones who play the long game by focusing on what they can do to serve others. It turns out, the most powerful thing you can do is be somebody who is valuable to others.
And that means how you show up, how you work with people. It means you don't point fingers and blame – you go to people and say, "Hey, how can we get better together?" It means you don't take credit, it means you thank other people effusively, it means you don't try to only work in the areas that you love, it means you focus on what people need.
Rachel Salaman: Now, the idea of being a go-to person or indispensable, some people see something negative in that because it sounds a little bit like showing off or, maybe, like it's all about puffing the individual up. Has anyone said that to you and what do you say to them if they have?
Bruce Tulgan: Well, the whole theme of the book is, if you really want to be a go-to person, it's not about you: it's about everybody else. If you really want your colleagues to want to work with you, to want to do things for you, to want to make good use of your time, to want you to have more power – it can't be about you.
Rachel Salaman: And one of the key strands of your book is how to gain what you call "real influence." What's the difference between real and false influence? Could you give a brief definition of each of them?
Bruce Tulgan: Yes. Thank you for asking that because I think, in today's world – where lots of middle-level managers have been removed, levels of hierarchy have been removed, organizations are trying to become more and more collaborative, they're trying to push collaboration down the chain of command, get people working across silos, cooperating – the mantra is, "It would be much better if you could work things out at your own level." Right? "Everyone is your customer," and, "You are everyone else's customer."
This is great! It drives collaboration, it drives faster information sharing and decision-making and execution, it reduces problems and resource waste. However, it also leaves people in a conundrum because, often, we're working with and relying on and having others rely on us, when the lines of authority are not clear – nobody has the authority.
So, it's all great if we're all in agreement, but what if we have different priorities? What if we have different agendas? What if we have competing egos? And so, one of the things people say is, "I don't have the authority. What do I do if I don't have authority? Well, I have to rely on this person, but I can't hold them accountable. Well, this person keeps coming to me but they're not my boss." How do you operate?
And so, it has become conventional wisdom that if you don't have authority, you have to use influence. But stop and think about that for a minute, Rachel. How do you use influence? Right? As soon as you start trying to use influence, you lose influence. And so, I think it's a huge red herring because, what people are really saying is, "I don't have the authority to force someone to do what I need." OK, so then "influence" in their lexicon becomes a poor stand-in for "authority."
So how do you influence somebody if you don't have authority? Do you bribe them? Do you bake cookies for them? Do you say, "Well, if you do this for me, I'll do that for you"? Now, does that imply if you don't do this for me, when it comes time for me to do my job for you, I might not cooperate?
What do you do, badger them? Follow them around and nag them? Do you go over their head? Do you threaten them, bully them, use social pressure? What does it exactly mean to "influence"? And so, I use the term "influence peddling" – that's false influence. So real influence is a long game.
Here's how you know if you have real influence: if other people want to do things for you; if other people want to work with you; if other people want to make you more powerful; if other people want to make good use of your time; if other people want you to want to work with them.
See, your influence lives in my brain, my influence lives in your brain. So the mathematics are very peculiar because it's incredibly useful – but if you try to use it you lose it!
And, not only that: if you give it away, lend it or spend it, it grows! Every time I do something for you, my influence grows. Not because you owe me, but because you think better of me and you want to cooperate with me.
Rachel Salaman: So, does this kind of influence help us become a go-to person?
Bruce Tulgan: It helps tremendously because, what happens is, you gain a reputation for being about serving others; you gain a reputation for being aligned with your chain of command; you gain a reputation for making good decisions; you gain a reputation [that] when you say, "No," I know it's for a good reason, when you say, "Yes," I know you're going to deliver for me.
You gain a reputation for having good judgment – it means I trust you, I have confidence in you. You know:
"Why are you doing it that way?"
"Because Rachel said so."
"Oh, well, what do you mean?"
"In the workplace, everyone knows: 'Oh, well, if Rachel said so [then] OK.'"
That's influence!
Rachel Salaman: Now, you say that doing things for others helps you build real influence. What are some other specific tips for building real influence?
Bruce Tulgan: Yes. So, the very tactical approach is... OK, if you believe me that serving others is where all of the real power in relationships comes from, then, you can't do everything for everybody. So that means you have to do the right things at the right times for the right reasons. So, you need to have a way of conducting yourself that's very professional and logical.
So, if you don't have authority, what do you do? Step one: make sure you align with authority because, even if you don't have authority, somebody is in charge. So make sure you know, "What would your boss say?" Nine out of ten times you want to have the answer to that! If people report to you, you want to make sure your people know exactly what you would say.
This what we call "vertical alignment." So, your anchor in today's world is vertical alignment. Make sure you know, with clarity, exactly what your boss's priorities are, what your boss's ground rules, marching orders [are].
How do you do that? Well, once a week, twice a week, three times a week, for fifteen or twenty minutes, you have a structured conversation with your boss where you say, "Here are my priorities, am I right? Tell me what I'm missing. Here are the things I need answers to. Here are some problems I'm working through. I want to make sure I understand my marching orders. Hey! I might have to do something with so-and-so, here's what I anticipate might come up."
So, you want to have lots of good, structured dialog with your boss. Anyone who reports to you – make sure your troops are aligned with you. Then you can go sideways and work with your colleagues with that good vertical anchor. And, when you go sideways, focus on other people's needs – when somebody asks something of you, that doesn't mean you have to say, "Yes!" But tune into their need.
Every time somebody makes a request, start taking notes, asking questions, make sure you are really showing them. And, authentically, tune into what is it they need. So you can figure out where your abilities, your skill, your time meets up with their needs.
And so, you can either say, "No, I can't do that. Let me explain..." [or] "Gee! I don't think we're allowed to do that so I don't think you should be doing that," or, "That may not be a good idea," or, "How about – gee! – could you go back and fine-tune your request because I don't know that we fully are aligned on what you need from me? Can you help me help you?"
And, eventually, when you say, "Yes." Then you want to make sure you have a good plan. So, remember: you have to rethink "yes" and "no." Every good "no" makes room for a better "yes."
"Yes" is where all the action is, "yes" is your opportunity to add value.
And, often, the right answer is, "Not yet." So, the first thing you have to do once you know you want to serve others, is you have to figure out, "OK, since I can't do everything for everybody, how do I make sure that I'm doing the right things for the right reasons?" The first piece is vertical alignment, the second piece is due diligence – really tuning into people's requests and then knowing when to say "no" and how to say "yes."
Rachel Salaman: Yes, and you go into both "yes" and "no" quite a lot in the book, it's a very useful section. What should we consider before saying "yes" and before saying "no"?
Bruce Tulgan: Well, I think a lot of the tactical reality is engaging with other people's asks. Because, when somebody is asking you for help, sometimes their ask is not well thought out. So, by engaging with their asks, you can help them clarify: what is it they really need here? You can help them clarify what parts of it they really need. When do they need it? How do they need it?
So, the first part is helping people fine-tune their ask. And the same is true for you – make sure that you pay very close attention to how you frame your asks. But, every time somebody makes an ask of you, do an intake memo, show them you're tuning in.
And then, we borrow from the Gate Review System in project management. So, there are three "No Gates" that you have to consider: "No, I cannot do that," meaning, "I do not have the resources – or I don't have ability – to do that." If you say "yes" but you can't do it, you're setting yourself and your internal customer up for failure. So, even though it might hurt to say, "No, I can't do that," it's much better to suffer up-front than to say "yes" to something you can't do and then fail.
The second "No Gate" is, "I'm not allowed to do that." Or, "I don't think we're allowed to do that. I think that's against the rules." And then you save everybody a lot of time, energy and trouble. Now, some folks, the go-to person they're looking for is the one who's willing to end-run the rules: don't do that.
So, make sure you follow the rules. And, sometimes, you can do somebody a favor by saying, "Maybe you didn't realize, but we're not allowed to do that!" And, by the way, that can help somebody fine-tune their request: "Oh, OK. Let me go back to the drawing board."
And then the tough one is when you shouldn't do it: meaning maybe it's not a good idea or maybe you have higher priorities. And that one you have to navigate carefully. So, if it's higher priorities, you might say, "Well, yes, I could do this in three weeks." [But] if it's something [like], "Gee! I think I probably could do that, but I'd have some learning to do. So maybe I shouldn't because maybe I'm not the best person for that." But then you can say, "Hey! That's not my specialty but I'd be willing to learn if you have time, and I'd be willing to dig into that." Or maybe you say, "I shouldn't do that because there's somebody better and I can introduce you." Or, sometimes the answer is, "Not yet."
But all of this is so that you make room for the very best "yes." Yes is where all the action is; yes is the beginning of a collaboration. "No" stops the action, at least for now. Now a bad "no," of course, might be overruled, so you want your "no's" to be good. The way to give yourself power to say "no," ultimately, is a long game: it's that you have reputation for being right.
When you say "no" you turned out to be right – "Yes, you were right. Boy! Good thing we didn't do that!" But that takes time. But what you're really doing is, you're counting on the fact that you will be known for your work, you will be known for the value you add. And those come from "yes."
So, when you say "yes" then it's key... It's not just "yes" it's, "Yes. Now let's make a plan." Because "yes" is, ultimately, how you will be judged for your work.
Rachel Salaman: And, in the book, you stress the importance of keeping line managers in the loop when we're asked to take on extra work by other people. How does that work in office politics terms, when your line manager may not want you to take on extra work?
Bruce Tulgan: Well, ultimately, if your line manager doesn't want you to take this on, you shouldn't take it on. That's vertical alignment.
So, what you want to say to your boss is, "Look, somebody's coming to me for A, B or C. I've done an intake memo so I've looked at the need. I've done a due diligence process so I think this is something I can do, something I'm allowed to do, and something I should do. But I want to make sure where this fits in your priorities. And I want to make sure, if I'm getting overloaded, that I know, from your perspective, what should take priority – the things I'm doing for you or this other thing?"
But, look, if you have a leader, manager, supervisor who's telling you, "Stop it! Stop doing that!" You're pleasing your lateral colleague or you're pleasing some other boss, but you're not getting the stuff done I need you to get done. That's vertical alignment – first and foremost, you’ve got to make sure that you are keeping your boss informed about what you're doing, why you're doing it and how you're doing it.
Now, look, some people have bosses who are trying to hold them back. If you have a boss who's trying to hold you back, then maybe you should go manager shopping and look for a better boss. But if this is your boss – this is the person to whom you report – you've got to keep that person in the loop. Now, a lot of managers will be happy if you're helping your lateral colleagues. That may well be in alignment with your boss's priorities, ground rules, and marching orders. But you want to keep your boss informed.
Rachel Salaman: That's interesting. But isn't it the case that workplaces are becoming increasingly less hierarchical, with flatter organizational structures?
Bruce Tulgan: That's true. But, still, there is a chain of command. There are people in charge, making decisions.
And what happens is: we try to work with people at our own level until it doesn't go right. And then, what usually happens, Rachel? If you and I are trying to collaborate and you have a different boss from me, and we're not able to agree and you're driving me crazy, I'm driving you crazy, what happens? I go over your head, you go over my head. I go to my boss, you go to your boss. Maybe my boss goes to your boss. Maybe I send an email to you saying, "You didn't respond to such-and-such," and I CC your boss.
So, we go vertical all the time because someone is in charge. But the mistake people make is trying to work things out at their own level and then, when we're in conflict, going to each other's boss. And that just makes things worse.
Much better is to try to go over your own head, first! And make sure you know what your boss would say. And, if I'm working with you, try to make sure that you're aligned with your boss before we make an agreement at our level that gets overruled by our bosses.
You're listening to Mind Tools Expert Interviews from Emerald Works.
Rachel Salaman: Now, we often hear the phrase "work smarter, not harder." What does that look like to you?
Bruce Tulgan: Yes. Everybody says that – work smart. And so I wanted to figure out, "OK, what does that actually mean?"
And, yes, what some people think work smart is, "Find someone else to do it for you." That's not what I mean. What some people mean is, "Find some robot to do it." No, that's not what I mean. Some people, they say, "Work in the things you're already great at and love." OK, that's smart, but the problem is, who's going to do all the work?
So, when I say, "Work smart." What I mean is, whatever you have to do a lot of – whether it's your passion or your natural strength – whatever you have to do, get really good at it. And so I call that "professionalizing" – whatever you have to do: professionalize.
And there's three elements of professionalizing. Number one: find existing best practices because they are out there. Do not make it up as you go along. Do not figure out your own way. Find the existing best practices and learn them.
Number two: find repeatable solutions to recurring problems, that you can use. And, number three: find good job aids to guide you. Checklists, work templates – all the things that make it easier to do the work better and faster and according to best practices and established, repeatable solutions.
That's professionalize. Once you get really good at something, then try to specialize in that thing. Be known for that thing. Let people know, "Hey! This is my specialty. If you need this, I'm really good at it."
But then you also have to be prepared to expand your repertoire of specialties. When somebody comes to you and says, "Can you do this?" You say, "Oh, that's not my job." Well, some people, when they say, "That's not my job," they're just trying to avoid work. Maybe that should be your job, maybe that's a chance to expand your repertoire of specialties.
Some people, when they say, "That's not my job." What they mean is, "That's not one of my specialties." But I think the next part of that thought is, "But I'd love to acquire a new specialty. Just bear in mind, I'm going to have to take the time to learn best practices, repeatable solutions and get my hand on job aids to guide me." So, anything that's not your job is an opportunity to build a new specialty, to professionalize something new – a new task, a new responsibility, a new project.
Sometimes, "That's not my job," is like, "Hey! Could somebody take out the trash?" And "That's not my job," there is like, "Well, OK, unless it is specifically somebody's job, then somebody's got to do it." So, saying, "I don't want to do that," that just makes you a jerk. Oh, you're too good to take out the trash? Right? So, some things that are not your job, you should do them because, you know, that's what good citizens do.
And some people, they say, "All right, I'll be the one to take out the trash from now on." If that's your job – if you're going to be the one to take out the trash, if you're going to be the one to make the coffee and the tea – then, professionalize: get really good at it.
Anything you do, the way to work smart is to make sure you are really good at it, so you don't make unnecessary mistakes, so that you recognize mistakes immediately and can resolve them, so you know what resources you need, how to plan those resources, so you follow the right steps. The shortest way between point A and point B is a straight line – you want to know that straight line.
Rachel Salaman: You mentioned job aids a couple of times there. Can you tell us a bit more about what you mean by a "job aid"?
Bruce Tulgan: OK. Job aids are just a tool. If you dig ditches, a job aid might be a shovel. But it also might be a tool to measure so that you dig the right size ditch, you know? It might be a wheelbarrow! A job aid is just a tool.
But the problem is, if you're not digging a ditch and you don't need a shovel, some people, they don't realize that a job aid would still be very useful. If you're making a chart, a job aid might be a template. If you do a process that's eleven steps, then a job aid might be a checklist so that you make sure you do each step properly.
A job aid is any kind of tool to guide you in making sure you follow best practices, making sure you "dot your I's and cross your T's", that you hit all the correct details, and that you don't go on autopilot.
So, sometimes, people will say, "Well, I don't need a checklist. I do this all day long, I know it by heart." Then the reason you do a checklist is to slow you down, so you don't go on autopilot and miss details and make unnecessary mistakes. How about if it's not something … "I haven't done this in two months!" Oh, well, then the checklist will make sure that you don't forget any of the pieces of the puzzle.
Also, a job aid is super helpful for educating your internal and external customers about what's involved. So, when they ask you to do something, if you want to really help them understand what you're doing, why and how, show them your checklist. Or, what if you don't have time and you want to cross train someone who can help back you up? A job aid is a great way to teach somebody and then also give them a tool to make sure that, even though they're new at this, they're more likely to follow the right steps correctly.
Rachel Salaman: Another key behavior of indispensable people that you talk about in your book is that they finish tasks – they execute well and quickly. And you have a whole chapter on this, in fact. What's one of your most effective tips here?
Bruce Tulgan: Yes. This is meant to address the person who wants to be a go-to person – and so they're saying "yes" to a lot of things and they take on such a big to-do list that they're always juggling.
And I don't know if you've had this conversation with people – I suspect you have – it's almost like a badge of honor, "I'm so busy, I'm always juggling!" Right? Well, if you're always juggling, you're going to drop a ball.
So, yes, everybody … "Oh, my schedules so packed and my to-do list is so long!" But, some people, their schedule is packed, their to-do is long, but they don't ever finish anything.
So, what our research shows is that the key best practice is, don't just look at your schedule but look at the gaps in your schedule – the gaps in your schedule – and block them out. And then, don't just look at your to-do list but carve up to-do items into smaller chunks of work that you can execute and finish during those gaps in your schedule.
So, the basic principle is, you need bigger chunks of dedicated time – fifteen minutes, thirty minutes, forty-five minutes: bigger chunks of dedicated time – and then smaller chunks of work that you can execute in those bigger chunks of dedicated time.
Of course, you should be able to have a long to-do list and a busy schedule, but [it's about] how you navigate the gaps in your schedule and carve up the work into smaller pieces so that you're always making tangible progress, completing tangible results. I always say it's like eating an elephant – one bite at a time. Right?
But you guys say, "OK, I've got twenty minutes here. How many bites of the elephant can I take?" Well, some people, they've got twenty minutes and they take a bunch of bites and then they choke on the elephant. So, it's, "No, how many chunks of the elephant? Bite, chew, swallow: bite, chew, swallow. How many times can you do that in twenty minutes?"
Rachel Salaman: Great. Now being a go-to person relies on building and maintaining good relationships with co-workers. So, it's no surprise that you delve into this idea in your book. One of your tips is to, "Examine and fine-tune your 'modus operandi.'" What do you mean by that and how do we do it?
Bruce Tulgan: Yes. Well, everyone has the experience of working together with people, relationships are so important – but they think of relationships as personal and political. But I think relationships at work should be all about the work. So, you've got to look at how you're working together with people.
And the best way is, what I call an "after-action review" – after every time you work together with somebody on a task, responsibility or project, fine-tune. Say, "OK. What went well? What needs to get better?" And, "Let's plan the next collaboration so that we do better."
I call it an after-action review. I borrowed that phrase from the United States Armed Forces, which is our number one client over the years. And, instead of being frustrated about how things went … People, they blame, they finger-point sometimes, "Oh, this didn't go right, this didn't go well. It was your fault, not mine." Instead, get together with your colleagues and talk about what went right and celebrate it. Talk about what didn't go as well and decide how you're going to do better next time, and then plan the next collaboration.
Rachel Salaman: Yes, it sounds obvious but so many people don't do that, do they?
Bruce Tulgan: Exactly! I mean, look, everyone, they're working along the way, the project goes well but there are some delays, there are mistakes. Maybe it's … At the end of the day, it's much more common for a project team to break up into little cliques. Right? So, "These three people like each other, these three people don't." And they blame each other for what went wrong, and they point fingers, and maybe they try to undermine each other and talk behind each other's back or, in a meeting, make it clear how, "It wasn't my fault, it was his fault!" And that's no way to do business.
But if you build in continuous improvement – not to improve each individual, but to improve how we're working together... And the best way is to have an open, honest conversation about what went right, what went wrong, and how to do better next time.
Rachel Salaman: Now, COVID-19 has scattered teams to individual home offices and kitchen tables in countries around the world. How much of your advice can be followed in the new, virtual work environment?
Bruce Tulgan: I mean, I did not write this book in anticipation of COVID-19, but I feel like I might as well have. Because, I'm telling people, "You want to be that indispensable person." Well, I think, in the economic crisis we're all going through and likely to go through for the foreseeable future, people are very much afraid for their jobs and they want to be indispensable. So, I think people are at risk of becoming overcommitted because they want to seem indispensable.
But, if you want to seem indispensable, then, if you become overcommitted, that's going to ruin your reputation. Because, if you're overcommitted, you're going to have delays, you're going to have mistakes, you're going to let people down – the more overcommitted you are, the less likely you are to be reliable and consistent. (That doesn't mean you don't have to do lots of work very well, very fast.)
So, I think now more than ever, is a time for a true service mindset. Now, more than ever, we have to rely on each other and make sure we don't waste a bunch of time, doing the wrong things, the wrong way: that we don't make unnecessary mistakes. Now, more than ever, we have to make sure that … It used to be we were working side-by-side. Now, we need to put so much more intention into our communication. Now, more than ever, we have to have intentional, structured communication so that we make sure that we're aligned, even though we're not in the same place.
Not being in the same place, we lose a lot – all of the unintentional noticing of each other. When you're in the same place, you notice things. When you're in the same place, you have spontaneous interaction. When you're in the same place, things happen serendipitously. When you're not in the same place, you have to put much more intention into how you communicate with people, how you plan the work, how you execute the work, and how you follow up and review the work.
Rachel Salaman: So, if you were to pull out just one, final tip that might help us in the new, virtual world of work, what would it be?
Bruce Tulgan: Be a servant to others. Focus, in every interaction, on the value you have to offer others. But don't play the short game, play the longer game.
The longer game is played one moment at a time. So, that means you have to… Don't try to do everything for everyone, try to do the right things at the right time for the right reasons, and build a reputation for being somebody who has good judgment and a service mindset.
Rachel Salaman: Bruce Tulgan, thanks very much for joining us today.
Bruce Tulgan: Thank you so much. What an honor and a privilege.
Rachel Salaman: The name of Bruce's book, again, is, "The Art of Being Indispensable at Work: Win Influence, Beat Overcommitment and Get the Right Things Done."
I'll be back in a few weeks with another Mind Tools Expert Interview from Emerald Works. Until then, goodbye.