Softening the Edge

Rachel Salaman: Now, in your subtitle you say that it's the oldest leadership trait, and that it could change the world. Can you explain that a bit? Why do you consider it a leadership trait?

Mimi Nicklin: Because, fundamentally, if you look, really, at all the best leaders in the world – and that's across spectrums, whether that's business, politics, health, wherever you're looking – those that can lead people, those that can encourage people to follow them, to believe in a vision, to follow a purpose, are the ones that have the most success, the most growth, the most profit, almost exclusively.

So, the ability to empathize with others, the ability to understand each other, is a fundamentally human skillset in being able to lead. It's something we've evolved to do over our entire evolution because, fundamentally, as human beings, we do better together, always.

So those leaders that could understand those around them and use that to create camaraderie and happiness and teamwork – but also, of course, growth and momentum and profit – are the ones that are really able to make a difference.

Rachel Salaman: And, in the book, you talk about the fact that we can all learn empathy. Could you talk us through that? Because you often feel like some people are just a bit more empathetic than others, and that they're probably born that way. But you don't see it that way, do you?

Mimi Nicklin: I don't, Rachel. Empathy is something we're all born with. And, as with all skillsets, we have to choose to use it.

So those that you meet that you feel – like you said – are maybe born with more empathy, are just those that are choosing to use it more often. And, as with all habits, the more you choose to do something, the more natural it becomes, the more frequently you do it.

So, it can often feel like someone is more empathetic than another but, physiologically, it's something that all human beings were born able to do. And there's lots of data and research that shows that, even from very young, newborn babies.

So, it is definitely a skillset. It's something that we can choose to leverage and, of course, in my opinion, that we should be choosing to leverage more often.

Rachel Salaman: Well, can you talk a little bit more about the empathy deficit and how we can see that in today's world?

Mimi Nicklin: Absolutely. We have thirty years of declining empathy levels. So, there's research out of the States that has shown those levels declining over time. There are many reasons for it: urbanization, the use of technology, the numbers of people living alone, the speed of life, the levels of stress in society.

There's many, many areas that are impacting this lack of connectedness, which is fundamentally what the empathy deficit is about – it's about this deficit of understanding and connectedness between us as humans, in families, in businesses, in society. We see that showing up, from an evidence point of view, in many areas.

So, we see anxiety increasing; we have over four hundred million people with depression – which, again, is mind-blowing and depressing in equal measure – we have the highest suicide levels in over fifty years. And, of course, in many markets – the U.K., the U.S. – that talk about this a lot, [there's] the rise of cyberbullying, some of the issues we have around the loneliness endemic… We may be living in a health pandemic, as we record today, but we've had a loneliness endemic for much, much longer.

And that has a whole series of health and life issues associated with it. So, it's time to really raise this discussion and look at how we reverse some of this isolation that we're seeing across groups and societies.

Rachel Salaman: So, what about the workplace, in particular? What are the signs that empathy is missing in today's world of work?

Mimi Nicklin: You'll see areas such as low morale, high staff turnover, low productivity, disconnectedness in teams. You might see areas such as tension, bullying, disconnectedness.

There's definitely data and evidence to show that, when we have low emotional intelligence, low empathy levels, you also see higher levels of mistakes, you see lower levels of risk-taking and innovation – so less creativity – and we see higher levels of things like self-censorship, which I write quite a lot about in my book.

Because, fundamentally, when people don't feel seen or heard, which is the core of an empathetic environment, you see self-censorship go up rather steeply, rather quickly – because people feel that they're not being listened to and noticed anyway so they stop talking.

And, of course, when that happens, there's all kinds of breakdowns of communication, teamwork, output, innovation – as I said – creativity, strategic thinking.

So, yes, there's really a lot of negative impacts [from] these low empathy environments or, at worst, empathy deficit environments, where you also see things like bullying and areas such as mental health problems that come out of those workplaces.

Rachel Salaman: Well, I suppose, from that list of negative effects, I think we can extrapolate why empathy does matter in the workplace. But what does it actually look like? What would your ideal scenario be if you were to describe it?

Mimi Nicklin: An empathetic team is a team that has connectedness at its core. So, the most important thing about culture, really, is that it comes from the top. So, when you have an environment that is empathetically positive, that is working well, you have a leader that is leading those teams with a transparency, for communication, but, also, with an expectation for empathy and understanding between people.

Because, fundamentally, what we measure manifests. So, in order to have these environments that are really successful, the entire team needs to be aware of this as a cultural and organizational vision – shared understanding, real care and consideration for people's working environments, working hours, the way they like to work. Even things like where people sit, amount of daylight... All of those types of things.

These are types of things that HR teams all around the world are doing in various guises but, often, they're lacking cohesion to one core vision – which is perhaps a vision to be an empathetically led team or a team that has connectivity at its core. And when they're not connected by a bigger vision, they become sort of hygiene, and they go unnoticed and they certainly lack impact.

Rachel Salaman: Do you think, in some workplaces, it's about actually giving people empathy training? Like sitting them down and giving them a training session on it?

Mimi Nicklin: I think the answer's, "Yes and no." And the reason I say that is, "yes," in that the marketer in me knows that, in order to impact behavior, you first have to create awareness. So, in that way, "yes."

"No," in that I don't think training, in its traditional sense, is necessarily the right environment. I think it's more about inspiration.

So, yes, there's things you can teach: listening skills, eye contact, body language. There are areas that I teach to people. But I think it's a bigger platform than that. I think this is less about training and more about mindset shifting – which, of course, you can do in a training environment but, yes, I think this is a bit bigger than that: it's more about us as humanity, rather than us as employees, per se.

Rachel Salaman: Now, you've worked in several different countries. What differences have you seen when it comes to empathy, both at work and in society at large?

Mimi Nicklin: I think what we see across societies is, the collectivist societies – predominantly, the East, the eastern markets, the Middle East as well, where we see really collectivist society – do tend to have higher natural levels of empathy. From a visual dataset, I can see it more. Because, they live and work together all the time, and our natural instinct – our subconscious, our brain – will default to connectivity, to humanity, when given the choice.

In the markets where we see higher levels of individualism, of people living alone, of isolation, all of those types of things, and technology, you do tend to see lower levels of empathy. And we often find ourselves in teams – especially people who work in different markets, like I have – where you share no context with these people at all. You didn't grow up in the same part of the world, with the same culture or the same language, you didn't even eat the same food and you probably don't celebrate the same days of the year.

So, you have very little in common from a society or social point of view. That is where you need empathy; that is where you need empathy the most to connect. And, often in these environments we're seeing it go amiss. So, I would say, at a very top-level point of view, a lot of it does come down to the type of society – and, of course, the types of governments and social systems that they're working within – as to whether people have that more natural disposition for choosing to empathize more often.

Rachel Salaman: And you talked earlier about the upside of empathetic leadership. But it can also create complications too, can't it? Because the more leaders consider the impact of a business decision on other people, the harder it must be to make that call. So how can a leader find the right balance between the needs of the individual and the needs of the business?

Mimi Nicklin: I don't think it's necessarily about it being difficult or there being downsides – it's simply about awareness to making those decisions with empathy.

The key thing is that empathy is not about agreement and empathy is not about judgment. So, when you make a decision – for example, to make somebody redundant – you can make that action, you can bring that to life, with empathy.

So, for example, I did: I had to go through a whole lot of redundancies when I took over this business and we weren't financially strong enough to maintain the people that we had. When you make those redundancies, you put that person front and center. You consider how they're experiencing that reaction and you make the time to talk to them, to coach them – whether that's help them with their CV, introduce them to other contacts, help them rebuild their experience set, perhaps suggest new ways of training, extend their visa or their health insurance, if you're in a market where those things are relevant.

Make decisions – micro decisions – that are empathetic, that allow that person to move on from bad news in a business environment, or a decision at a corporate level that doesn't necessarily go their way. Put yourself in their shoes and help them move through that.

Because, empathy doesn't mean, "I can never make a difficult decision." Empathy doesn't mean, "I always have to be kind." Because, it's not kind to make someone redundant, but you can do it with empathy in a way that has kindness within it. Right? So, it's more about the way you approach them, than doing things differently.

We all have to make difficult decisions but, if we can connect with those people and do it in a way that reduces the pain as much as possible, then we're creating positivity in that wider sphere.

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Rachel Salaman: I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about the changes that you made when you took over that leadership position in Dubai and how empathy led you, or made a difference, in that situation.

Mimi Nicklin: Yes, absolutely. I felt like the chips were really down for me at that time. I was new in a market; I was – I am a single mum and I had a baby at that time. So, she's now three but, then, she was just over one so she was a baby-in-arms. I didn't know anyone in the city, we didn't have, really, any retained clients. So, really, I had nothing going for me beyond the fact that I had a fantastic company: the brand was fantastic, and a really great leadership system there, and wonderful people.

And I knew that with those two things, we had to be able to grow and make change: that, if we put people – which was what I did have – at the heart of everything we did, we would fix this, we would grow. Because I believed that when we put humans above everything else, us humans tend to resonate. Empathy's very contagious.

So, I made a decision to make all the decisions based on people – whether that was my people, my clients, my partners, my suppliers, whoever it was – that I would just put people in the core of everything. And, of course, as you mentioned earlier, it's not always easy to do that but it is always the right decision, I think. You can never really fault yourself on a moral level if you've put everybody at the heart of what you're doing.

So, some of those changes were really small. We sent a questionnaire around to the team and asked them what I could do – what we could do – in order to improve the working environment. I run a creative business, a creative agency, so I knew that creativity comes from happy, healthy people, fundamentally – you need to be well and happy and inspired and stable in your life in order to think creatively. That's physiological; that's how the brain works.

And we got answers back: all kinds of answers back. And I would say we managed to execute probably 90 percent of them. And some of them were really small, like, "Please can we have fresh milk instead of UHT, long-life milk in the kitchen?" OK, fine. We'll put in fresh milk. "Please can we play music in the office because it just feels a bit dull?" OK, yes, that's absolutely fine. "Please can we change the lighting?" Sure, we can. Empathetic change in culture doesn't have to cost much, or anything at all.

The fundamental shift of making those things – of changing the milk and improving the lighting and putting in better music and those types of things – is that people feel heard and seen. So, for their small thing, I said, "Yes." And then I did it immediately. I mean, within a day it was done, where possible.

Because, it's not about new milk or new music: it's about having leaders that see you, that ask you, "How can I help?" And then act on that.

And I became aware, much later in that journey, that those words – "How can I help?" – were absolutely critical to everything we did. Because, when I say that to my team I mean it, and they know I mean it and we always action it.

So, I think those things are really, really important: asking people before you make decisions… That doesn't mean you're necessarily able to act on what their choice would be – they might want to sit here and you need to move them there, for whatever reason – but at least that discussion has happened and you've explained to them if you're not able to do what they would like you to do, you've been able to empathize with why they wanted you to do it and explained to them and moved forward with that decision openly, in conversation.

So, yes. I think it was a long list of small changes, rather than anything fundamentally shifting. But that sentence, "How can I help?" Probably sits at the core to nearly all of them. That was also at the core of growing our client business and winning lots of new multinational clients. I think that was really fundamental to that shift, as well.

Rachel Salaman: Did you run into any resentment though? Because I know that I, personally, can't work with any music in the office at all. And it was interesting to read that in your book because it suggested that everybody in your office not only liked working with music, but, somehow, you were able to find a type of music that suited everyone's tastes. How did that work in practice?

Mimi Nicklin: I think... Music is so contentious, for those reasons that you say. Not everybody likes music but I think the other thing we did alongside that is created enough space for people to move and total permission to be wherever they want.

So, what I knew then, what I know now, is that sound is incredibly powerful for the human brain. Actually, it changes hormone levels when you have different sounds in the background. So, when I took over a team that needed motivation and energizing, the sound – and there's lots of other bits in my book as well around scent and all kinds of things – was really, really important.

But it came with the freedom to wear headphones, to work in a meeting room, to work in a coffee shop, to work from home, to shut the door – to do whatever you wanted to do. What we were trying to do was create an environment with energy. And I mean, this wasn't blasting over massive speakers either: there was one Bluetooth player in one part of the office, near reception. So, you could definitely escape it and people have the freedom to choose and that remains until today.

I have team members… And, now, as we come out of COVID[-19], over here in Dubai, we do a hybrid of home and office, and I have staff members who don't want to come back for various familial or personal reasons, and that is maintained with the upmost respect as long as people are playing [as] part of the team and doing what we all need to do as our shared vision. That's there.

So, I think there's such a thing as macro empathy as well micro empathy. And, of course, on a macro level, it was incredibly important to the re-establishment of the team and the energy. But you're absolutely right – on a micro level, people need space to be able to form their own pods of optimal work environments.

And I think it's worth saying that you can't ever please everyone. Whenever you create change, you have to make peace with the fact that you can't please everyone. So, to your question, "Will someone resent you?" Probably! Because it's impossible. It's impossible to do the absolute right thing for everybody at all the same time. But I think, if our intention is in the right place, we're at least on the right road.

Rachel Salaman: Yes. I wonder how much of your time was spent managing this empathy-driven strategy. I'd be interested to hear, you might say, "Well, that was worth it." But it might be a lot more than most leaders put into a turnaround – the people side of things.

Mimi Nicklin: I suspect it is, though we grew a lot faster than most businesses probably would, as businesses. And it does differ – if somebody listening to this runs a factory and their output is microwaves [ovens], their product is as important as the people on their production lines, right? Because they have to make great microwaves.

Of course, it's different: I'm in a consultancy-based business. We're a marketing, advertising agency. So, my currency... What I sell is the IP, the EQ, the IQ of my people. OK? So, I think that's the first thing to say: that my strategy works – would work best – in any environment that has people as the main output of that organization.

But the second thing is: yes, it takes more time because people take time. And there are two great enemies to empathy. The first is time – so a lack of time – and the second is stress.

But, fundamentally, if you invest in your people, you don't have to invest in anything else. I knew, instinctively, but also from data – from psychology and from data out of Harvard and Yale and Oxford and all these fantastic universities – that, when people are looked after, everything else looks after itself.

Rachel Salaman: You've given us one great tip, which is to always think, "How can I help?" If other people wanted to emulate what you did with your team, what are some key steps that might work in any organization?

Mimi Nicklin: The communication skills at the core of listening are probably where I would start, because the backbone of empathy is listening.

And, when you listen to people, really listen – so that's with your eyes: you make eye contact; it's with your body: so your body language is active, you don't have crossed arms, your shoulders are facing them; you're open, you're really there; and, of course, you're listening and your brain is connected to them; you're hearing everything they say, you're not thinking about buying new dog food, when you've got to pick up the kids, or watering the plants – the response from people is almost immediate.

So, I would say, for anyone who wants to give this a go, that's the first step. Next time you're in a meeting or you're talking to your team, really make a conscious awareness or focus on listening: really hear them. Hear what they're saying, look at their body language, keep eye contact with them and then respond to them.

When they finish, repeat back to them – or slightly rephrase – but repeat back to them the last sort of three to five words that they said. What that will do is two things. Number one: it will assure you that you heard them. That you heard correctly what they were saying. Number two: it gives them the opportunity to either correct or confirm.

So, I'll say, "OK, Sarah, so what you're saying is x, y and z." And she'll say, "Yes, Mimi, that's absolutely right." Immediately, Sarah feels, "Oh, my boss was listening. That's good. I feel good." Sarah feels good because she's been heard, and I can go away feeling good as the boss because I'm like, "Good. I've understood what she wants. I understand her point of view. I've got her dataset. Now I can think about how, if, when, I use that information."

So, yes, that all forms part of active listening and those are the first steps to really creating change.

Rachel Salaman: Now, of course, we can't get away from the fact that a lot of team communication is done via video call at the moment, rather than in the usual workspace. How can people convey empathy when they're talking via Zoom or Teams?

Mimi Nicklin: It's often assumed that technology or video screens diminish empathy, and I don't believe that's true. On the whole, you can create empathy via a screen. A lot of it comes back to many of those similar skills and just a slightly elevated consciousness.

So, eye contact becomes really, really important because if you were on a screen and you keep looking away at your phone, or the kettle, or your daughter, or your dog, or whatever you're looking at, it's really distracting – even more than it would be if you were in a room.

Because, if you're in a room together, you've got all kinds of sensations around you that are creating that environment, keeping you engaged, keeping you together. If you just have a screen between you and you're sitting in very different environments – different countries, different temperatures, different seasons – your eye contact is the one thing that is connecting you to that screen. So, eye contact becomes really important, as does body language – so shoulders faced to the camera – those physical things are really important.

Tone of voice, cadence – so, rhythm of your voice, equally important. If you find someone's over Zoom, on a screen, Teams, wherever you are, and they're talking very fast and they're very panicked and they're very stressed and they don't know what … and the speed is just really fast and you can tell they're stressed and there's a really high, strained environment – you can change the tone. You can empathize and slow that down with your tone of voice, with your cadence, with, perhaps, the way you enquire, the way you ask questions, the way you bring the rhythm of that conversation, perhaps, slightly more back to balance.

Rachel Salaman: Now, what about written communication? We use "chat" and email a lot, especially in the days of Covid. What should we bear in mind? Can we convey empathy that way?

Mimi Nicklin: Of course you can show empathy! If someone writes you an email about an environment, a situation that's happened and they're feeling very stressed because they're going to miss a deadline or the order's not on time or whatever, without a doubt… Customer service teams do it all the time: they write back to you, they empathize, they understand the situation and they tell you they're going to fix it and they're going to look into it, whatever.

I mean 101: that's letter writing, right? That's what we evolved to do was written communication in that way. But I think, as I said, the other thing is not to brush aside things by using emoticons and those types of things. People will know you're not listening. Right?

If you tell someone something quite serious or important and they reply with a thumbs-up hand, you know they're not really listening, they're not understanding, they're doing twenty other things. So, I think it's really about awareness. But, of course, the words you choose and the way you respond says a lot about you as a person and as a communicator. So, being aware of your tone and making the time to really formulate written content cannot be underestimated, really.

Rachel Salaman: It was interesting, in your book, that you offer some advice for team members who don't have empathetic leaders. So, I wondered if you could just talk a little bit about that.

Mimi Nicklin: It's really difficult, Rachel. It's one of the questions I get asked a lot of – "If my boss has no empathy, can I imbue it in them or can I encourage it? Or is there anything I can do?" And I go back to my comment earlier about empathy being contagious and about the fact that empathy is, actually, something that's natural.

The other thing we know about empathy is that, when we empathize, the human body – evolution – is incredibly clever, because what it also does, as well as light up the empathy neurons, as it were, in the prefrontal cortex, we also see the neural pathways for joy light up.

So, when we empathize with each other, we actually experience joy: we feel happier, because evolution has tuned us to do that.

From an evolutionary point of view, we know that, when we empathize – when we connect – we work better together. So, in order to encourage that, the brain also ensures that, when you're empathizing, you feel better, you feel happier.

So, all I really say to those team members is, "Keep trying." Try to empathize with them. Why do you feel that they're not listening? What might be going on in their context? What's going on in their environment to make them behave that way? And can you lean in? Can you dial into some of those things?

If you can empathize more with them, the chances are, over time, they will begin to recognize that and respond to that and, perhaps, empathize back – because that is a natural response.

And I think, as team members, we don't give much thought to our bosses' realities because we assume that's their job, which, of course, it is – as a leader that is our job, to look after our teams and create that umbrella for them to succeed and thrive. So, as leaders, I'm sure, we're all trying our best to make the right decisions at the right time. And a little empathy towards them and their decision making, may just be the difference between a relationship that's in flux and, perhaps one that is a little bit more two-way.

Rachel Salaman: Another idea that popped out at me from your book was the idea of self-empathy, which actually sounds like a contradiction in terms in some ways. Can you describe what you mean by that?

Mimi Nicklin: Absolutely. Self-empathy is about understanding yourself, about understanding what makes you tick, what allows you to thrive, to do best, what motivates you and drives you and allows you to perform at your optimal ability.

As humans, we live to grow, fundamentally – that is what motivates us, in all areas. It could be really small levels of growth or it could be really big levels of growth: if you meet someone who's aspiring to be the next global CEO of Microsoft or Apple or somebody!

When we're growing, we're happy. And knowing yourself as to how that growth's going to come about, where it's going to come from, what's going to fulfill you, is really, really important.

So, having self-empathy, having that real compassion for yourself, taking time – as I said earlier, time and stress are the great enemies of empathy – finding the time, lowering your stress levels, finding the time for yourself, allows you to be a stronger person. And it always reminds me of that moment on an airplane – back in the day, when we used to get on airplanes, pre-2020! – when they say, "Put your oxygen mask on first." That's really what self-empathy's about. It's about put your oxygen mask on, protect yourself, know what allows you to thrive because, once you've got that right, you can start helping others.

Rachel Salaman: So, do you have one final piece of advice for anyone who's looking to practice more empathy at home or at work?

Mimi Nicklin: I think my final piece of advice would really just be to think about it: just give it a bit more thought, try it.

Because it is a skillset – the more you do it, the easier it will get, the more habitual it will become. And I truly believe that a little bit more empathy in all of us is going to go a really long way. So, it would be to think about it a little bit more often, make that choice, test it out, see how it feels for you, see how it impacts and gains different responses from those around you. Perhaps you'll find it a really mind-opening and situation-changing experience.

Rachel Salaman: Mimi Nicklin, thanks very much for joining us today.

Mimi Nicklin: Thank you so much for having me. It's been fantastic.

Rachel Salaman: The name of Mimi's book again is, "Softening the Edge: how humanity's oldest leadership trait could change the world." You can find out more about her and her work at miminicklin.com, where you'll also find links to her podcast, "Secrets of the Gap," and her YouTube series, "Empathy for Breakfast."

I'll be back in a few weeks with another Mind Tools Expert Interview from Emerald Works. Until then, goodbye.