Working With You is Killing Me

Rachel Salaman: So let's start with the basics. Katherine, perhaps this is a question for you. What kinds of emotional traps do people fall into at work?

KC: Well actually Rachel, I think you named a number of them in your introduction, but I'll just review some of the things I think you already stated. It can be – emotional traps really cover the gamut; it can be anything from an irritating co-worker, an unruly employee, a difficult boss, maybe an overly demanding customer, an incompetent vendor, or even another department that seems inconsiderate or slack in some way. We really define emotional traps as anyone who hooks you. Anyone or anything that hooks you, and that is it stirs you up emotionally and causes turmoil in your day.

Rachel Salaman: And what proportion of people fall into these traps as much as you can generalize about it?

KC: Well, I'm going to come up with my answer and then ask Kathi for hers, but I would say probably 98%, perhaps, of the workforce has one kind or another of a trap that they can fall into. Kathi?

KE: Yeah, I'd say it's really 100%, and I think everybody suffers from it.

Rachel Salaman: Well I know I certainly have in the past. So the starting point for turning these situations around is changing your own reaction to the annoying behavior in question: that's what your book proposes. Now that sounds a bit easier said than done. Is it, Kathi?

KE: Yes, it is. It's much easier to say it than it is to do it. You know, this is what happens, Rachel, we tend to focus on the other person; they're the problem. You know, what we – well I do anyway. I want revenge, you know, I want to right what that person just did to me, but the problem is, when you do that, you're focusing on the other person and giving them a lot of attention and a lot of power. What we're suggesting is that you take back the power and you under – you realize that it really starts with you. You're the one who doesn't have to have that reaction. So, instead of focusing on the other person, we'd like you to focus, excuse me, on yourself and your own reaction. You're not going to change the other person so you can control yourself.

Rachel Salaman: Now, in the book, you call this 'unhooking'. It's a four-step process, put basically. What are those four steps, Katherine?

KC: Well, the unhooking process four steps are to unhook physically, unhook mentally, unhook verbally and unhook with a business tool, and I'm just going to cover each one a little bit in more detail. Unhooking physically is the first step and it's taking steps to release tension and calm your nervous system down. So let's say if there's someone who, a colleague who's sitting right next to you and is talking endlessly, part of what you need to do is probably calm yourself down because you certainly may feel like you'd like to reach over and throttle them. So first, you would unhook physically. Unhooking mentally is assessing your situation and devising options in terms of setting limits. So, again, if we talk about the overly chatty co-worker, unhooking mentally would be to take yourself through a series of questions of what's going on here, what's their part, what's my part, what are my options here and what can I – what actions can I take? And then we ask you to unhook verbally, which is finding the words to communicate what you want in a positive way, taking the high road. So, let's say with the chatty co-worker, you could say something to them of the effect – unhooking verbally would be to say, you know, "I know you've got a lot to say right now and I'm really trying to focus on my work, would you mind keeping it down," or something along those lines. And then unhooking with a business tool is taking a concrete business action to reinforce what you've just asked for. And business tools we describe as any business option or action that you can take such as emails, job descriptions, performance evaluations; any kind of thing you can use in your situation to reinforce what you're trying to establish. So, again, with the person who is overly chatty, talking next to you, it could be that you send a follow-up email to them; it could be that you ask, as a group, for a policy to be made in terms of noise level in the office, something having to do with drawing on the business tools available.

Rachel Salaman: So do you have to do all of those four steps or are one or two more important than the rest, Kathi?

KE: You know, you do have to do all four of those steps unfortunately, and you do need to do them in the order that we lay them out. But, if I had to pick one that I thought was the most important, I would say physically unhooking, our first step. So, whether you use exercise, or massage; some people find taking a shower, some sort of physical release as soon as you find you're hooked, or even the next day, sometimes you have to physically release it before you can think clearly and look at your options. So that's probably the most important, but you do have to do them all.

Rachel Salaman: Now in your book, you talk about the different types of boundaries that co-workers can cross at work, which can drive you mad. What are some of the most common, Katherine?

KC: Well, actually I'm going to backtrack for a minute, just to clarify, when we talk about boundaries in the workplace we're talking about those invisible lines between individuals, and this is part of what can drive you mad, that your interpersonal boundaries may be different from someone else's. So, in terms of those areas, we would – I would say the ones that cause the most friction have to do with time, and that is one person could be – could see being on time as being anywhere between 15 minutes to a half hour to three days' late with a deadline, versus you may be someone who's very timely, gets things in on time, arrives early; so time is a big one. Personal space: people invading each other's personal space. Now that we have fewer actual offices and more cubicles or open work areas, there are many opportunities for someone to use your stuff; get too close, sit in your place, you know those kinds of things. And then the other thing of boundary busting that seems to be very big right now has to do with noise, Rachel, because, you know, again, with the walls coming down of the office environment, everyone's noises, whether it's a beeper, a cell phone, a computer, any, you know, an mp3 player, whatever it is, are now permeating everyone else's space. And even the sound of your voice, or someone who constantly clears their throat or sneezes in a funny fashion, can drive you crazy.

Rachel Salaman: So what tips do you have for people who need to set or even reset their boundaries in these areas, Katherine?

KC: Well, the biggest thing that you have to do with boundaries is to clarify your own, Rachel, which is that, if someone is doing something that really bothers you, let's say for example they're using – someone is constantly using or taking things from your desk. You really have to stop and figure out two things: one is we would ask that person to take themselves through the unhooking process and to say, "Okay, this is not – this person – the person who I think is busting my boundary is not doing this to hurt me; they're doing it because they don't understand that this is an invasion of me." And so then you have to clarify what your boundary is and find in some positive way to state it to the other individual. So, if it has to do with your things, you can do anything from saying, you know, "This is just me, but I really appreciate that you don't take anything from my desk unless you let me know." Some people post signs at their desk that say, "Keep off, private property." You can do any number of things, but you have to take responsibility for communicating what your boundary is in a positive and personally responsible manner.

Rachel Salaman: Sometimes it's difficult to know where your boundaries should be. How can you tell if your boundaries are fair, Kathi?

KE: Yeah, I think that's such an interesting question because sometimes boundaries are cultural and you don't know that you're tripping on somebody's. You know, some people don't want to shake hands, they don't want someone to get too physically close but, you know, sometimes you have to just let it go and understand that their upbringing allows them to touch one another, and that may be something you're offended by, but sometimes you should just let it go. And another thing we see is a lot of people are offended by smells: perfume, aftershave, you know, ethnic food, and it's – sometimes it's just a little unfair to demand that there are no smells in the workplace. It's not going to happen. It's difficult to find soap that's not scented these days, you know, there are going to be scents, so I think you have to express what your boundary is and then let up a little bit. And ask colleagues around you what they feel is fair, if you've gone too far.

Rachel Salaman: In your book you also talk about people being stuck in certain roles that can limit their professional development. What are the most common of these roles, Katherine?

KC: We actually have seven roles that we talk about in our book, but actually I'm going to go back, trace back just again a bit to say that roles are usually those parts that we learn to play early in life, and they aren't necessarily a problem unless they do limit your ability to move forward. So the ones that we cover have to do with – well, there are seven other bits: the Hero is one, which is the superhuman of the workplace; the Care Giver, these are the natural counselors at work, the ones who want to hear all your problems and solve all those problems as well; the Rebel, these are the non-conformists of the workplace who like to shake things up and challenge authority; the Martyr, and these are the ones who shoulder lots of responsibility and quietly suffer, but are also hoping to be recognized constantly for all that they do; the Entertainer, this is the crowd-pleaser in the workplace who you can count on to tell a good joke and break the tension whenever necessary; the Peacemaker, this is the diplomat, the person who wants to work out all the differences and have many, what we would call, Coombiyah moments; and then the invisible one, and these are the unseen employees of the workplace who you don't usually remember if they were at the meeting that you just attended, if they came to the office party, or exactly what their cubicle is – where their cubicle is.

Rachel Salaman: At what point does being in one of those roles become a problem?

KC: Being in one of those roles becomes a problem when it actually limits you. And, when we say 'limit' it could do one of three things: one is that you may find that you're boxed in, in a certain way. So, for example, let's say you're a Rebel and you're known as the contrarian. Then, even if you make a suggestion that's a very positive one, people may jump on you immediately and say, "Oh God, just stop causing trouble," you know. That would be an example of being boxed in. Another way it may limit you is you may not get promoted because, let's say if you're an Invisible one, and you're never really willing to take responsibility or credit for your ideas or be seen, then someone else may get promoted or given the better position because you aren't visible. The third situation would be that others often misinterpret the intention of your actions, so let's say if you are a Hero, and you're always jumping in to save the day, people may actually start resenting all of your heroic actions, even though you believe you're doing it for the benefit of the company.

Rachel Salaman: So how can people unhook themselves from these roles, and what do they gain if they do? Perhaps Kathi, you could answer this?

KE: Well, you know, we suggest that, if you feel you are stuck in one of these roles and it's holding you back, that you change one habit for 30 days, and, while you do that, you'll see that people will try to bring you back to being the old you. For instance, if you're the Entertainer, the person that breaks the tension at every tense meeting with a joke, when you stop doing that people are going to look to you to tell a joke, so you have to be very strong to change the behavior, but it's the only way to get yourself out of one of these confining roles. So, let's say you're a Rebel, as Katherine mentioned before, and everybody, you know, know – they just expect you to make trouble. We suggest that you find yourself some sort of an editor, somebody who can look at your emails and your letters before you send them out, maybe even someone you run a conversation by before you actually have it, to take that charge out of it. So we're asking you to really, really change the behavior for at least 30 days, and you will see a difference. You will see people react to you differently.

Rachel Salaman: Well, let's talk about 'fatal attractions' now. This is a term that comes up in your book. Katherine, what are these?

KC: Fatal attractions are probably the greatest challenge in any workplace situation, and in our book we talk about them. We have a specific chapter about fatal attractions, but we also talk about them in a "boss chapter" that's called Difficult and Extreme Bosses because these relationships tend to be most challenging when it's the person who is your employer. So a fatal attraction is a relationship that starts out on a very good foot, where initially the person who you're working with, you have great hopes for, you think it's going to work out well; there's something about them that feels familiar and comfortable and then, within a fairly short period of time, the relationship turns sour. And usually it's not because of something you do; it's about a way in which the other person changes: it's as if they flip. So, for example, a very dynamic and charismatic person suddenly starts exploding on you and you didn't realize that there was this dark side to their personality and now you're constantly having to field that behavior.

Rachel Salaman: And what are the most common types?

KC: Well, we name five in our book, which starts with the Exploder, that we say starts out very dynamic and can turn into dynamite. Then we have the Empty Pit, and these are often colleagues who start out very nice. They tell you a few of their deepest darkest secrets, and then they turn into very needy, they want a lot of your time and attention and they essentially want you to be their unpaid therapist. Then we have the Saboteur, and these are the people who start out very praising of you and turn into your worst enemy because they stab your back behind you and infiltrate all of your business relationships. And then we have the Pedestal Smasher, and this is someone who builds you up at the beginning, tells you that you're going to save the world, that you're wonderful, and then slowly starts to smash you off the pedestal, tell you everything that's wrong with your behavior and constantly criticizes your work. Finally we have the Chip-on-the-Shoulder, and this is someone who starts out appreciative; they've usually had a little tough luck. Often this may be someone who works for you and they ask for a second chance, you give it to them and then they turn into a very resentful, very negative member of your staff.

Rachel Salaman: Are there any ways to avoid a fatal attraction?

KE: No.

KC: No, they're almost magnetized to you.

KE: That's true. Yes, they are.

KC: We would love to say that there are.

KE: There are.

KC: There are over time, and it's actually going to be our next book, will be about how to avoid fatal attractions by interviewing and really screening but, in many cases, really honestly there aren't. And the reason why we call them fatal attractions, Rachel, is because we each seem to have our own brand, and that's what we really try to do in the book, is to have you read the descriptions and understand your own reaction to each of these so you can figure out which one yours is. So, for example, my specialty, I'm very good at attracting Pedestal Smashers, whereas Kathi...

KE: Saboteurs.

KC: Kathi's very good at attracting Saboteurs.

KE: They just come in.

KC: And I think we've each had our fair share of Empty Pits, you know.

KE: Yeah, that's true.

KC: So you really just – the best you can do is, instead of avoiding fatal attractions, which is what we'd all really rather do, is that you get better and better at spotting them, Rachel, and being able to identify very quickly, "Ah, there's a Saboteur," steer clear.

Rachel Salaman: You're in a fatal attraction, then there is a process which will allow you to unhook from it, isn't there, that's outlined in your book? Perhaps Kathi, you could take us through that.

KE: Correct. It's what we call our Advanced Unhooking technique and this really is for the ones that are emotionally so draining, and we call it the Four Ds and I'll go through them. First, once you have to detect that you're in one of these relationships, and we go through all what that feels like, which is extremely uncomfortable. We get very consumed; that person takes up a lot of real estate in our brain where we're thinking about them, talking about them, rehashing conversations, and so once you detect that you're in one of these relationships, we ask you to detach and depersonalize. And what that means, when we say 'detach', understand you're not going to change this person. You have to be willing to accept that, accept these things. This person is an Exploder, they are going to explode, and I'm not going to be the person to change them. We tend to think we can, but the truth is we cannot change someone else's behavior. And then we ask you to depersonalize, and what that means is it's not about you. Now frequently, when I say this to someone, "It's not about you," I see their eyes just shift. They can't – it's hard to take that in. It's very difficult for people to realize, "I can't change someone and their behavior is not about me." They're going to treat the next person the same way and they already are treating other people this way, but that's truly what we want you to do: accept that you're not going to change them and that it's not about you. And then the last step would be dealing, coming up with a plan of protection. So, let's say for the Saboteur, which is my specialty, what I have to do is surround myself with people that are going to allow me to know when the Saboteur is saying things behind my back, and I have to make sure that I insert myself in every meeting where this person would – could possibly be to hurt me, so you come up with a strategy for dealing. It's not easy, but we lay it out and you can do it.

Rachel Salaman: In the book there's another section for Managing Up, which is effectively managing your boss, and there's a section for Managing Down, which is an idea that's more familiar to most people. Under what circumstances would someone need to manage up, Kathi?

KE: Well, you know, we all need to manage our boss. In general most of us sit and wait for the boss to manage us and we wait and wait. But we all want – we want everybody to manage up, but the truth is, the more inept your boss is, the better you're going to have to get at it. So you may have a new boss that hasn't had much management training, or you may have a boss that is – has been around for a while, but maybe has some bad habits and doesn't give you information and doesn't meet with you. That's when you really need to take control and not wait for the boss to manage you, but you take care – you can take control of the situation.

Rachel Salaman: And how do you do that?

KE: Well, we have what we call these five very important things that you need to do, and I'll just go over them. One is it's very important to meet with your boss regularly. Now we don't mean talk to your boss as they're getting in the elevator, or talk to your boss as they're running by you because, if somebody is on their way to another meeting, they're not listening to you. We're talking about face-to-face. Have a real sit-down meeting with your boss, where their undivided attention is at you. Now we know a lot of bosses, it takes a while to train them to do that, but you've to persevere and get them to meet with you. We also – step number two is always have a detailed agenda because, if it's written down and your boss has a piece of paper of everything you need to go over, the chances of your boss helping you are a lot greater than just a verbal communication. So your meeting, you have an agenda, you also need to keep a pulse on your boss's changing priorities. What tends to happen today, because work is so fast, everything is changing so fast, your boss may not have time to communicate. What you thought was the priority of the day may no longer be the priority, so it's really your job to be watching that and make sure you say to your boss, possibly in the morning, maybe even check in later in the day, "What's our priority today?" A boss will really appreciate that and learn to start communicating that to you. Next we want you to anticipate problems and offer solutions. You know, we have very predictable problems in the workplace yet, when they happen, let's say the computer failure or the copier breaks down or maybe directions, your boss is going to an appointment and directions are not available, these are very predictable problems. We'd like you to really think about them, anticipate these problems, and get them before they become a problem, handle them. Again, see, if you're waiting for your boss to manage you, they would tell you to check these things. We're suggesting don't wait to be told, just do them. And the last step is to be sure to be ready to give a status on all of your projects at a moment's notice. Many employees feel defensive when their boss says, "What's happening" with a particular project? When the truth is they have to report on what's going on, so there's no need to be defensive; you should always be prepared to give a report. And that's in general what we call 'managing up', not waiting for your boss to manage you.

Rachel Salaman: Well, on to more familiar territory now, Managing Down, which you call "Business Parenting." Why do you call it that, Kathi?

KE: Because it's very similar to being a parent when you manage people. You have to remember that people come to work and they look at the authority figures in a similar way that they look at their parents or that they look at their teachers in school, and it's kind of how we learned to operate in the world, so we expect to be told what you can do and what you can't do, as employees. So, for instance, if I'm told the start of the workday is at 8:30, but I don't show up 'til nine, but nobody tells me that that's a problem, then I assume it's okay. So that's very childish, and that's where it comes in, is that you do have to, you know, like you tell a child, you have to say to a child, "No, you can't do that." "Yes, you can do this," and there's rewards and there's consequences, very similar to being a parent. I think it was when I became a parent that I realized how similar the two roles really were, so that's where we came up with that. And people really relate to it 'cause anyone who's a good manager knows that they really do have to take the time and nurture their staff.

Rachel Salaman: What are the four key principles of Business Parenting?

KE: Well, the most critical is that people need to know what is expected of them. I mean, that's very – it just seems so natural. We all want to know, "What am I being judged on? What is expected of me?" But so many managers don't do that. They're not even really sure or they have it in their head, but, you know, we don't have crystal balls. We need to know what is it that you expect from us? And then another thing is employees need consistent feedback. That's another place where I feel managers, they just – they again assume, "The employee should know I'm angry because I'm giving a bad attitude," but no, we need consistent feedback. So number one, I know what's expected of me, and number two, I'm getting feedback. I'm hearing when something is good and I'm hearing when something may not be that good. Another – the third thing a manager has to know is that employees test the environment. So, to go back to that example of "I know I have to be at work at 8:30, but I'm coming in at nine," that's what employees do, they push it. Like children, they think, well, you know if they're not going to say anything, then maybe it's not that important, but that's where you do need to know. People have to be communicated what's okay and what isn't. And we suggest – we go back to this business tool that we take throughout the book. We suggest that managers get really familiar with job descriptions and reviews and really use them to keep employees accountable.

Rachel Salaman: All the insight in this book is very useful for people caught in emotional traps at work, but are there ever situations that simply can't be improved, when the worker would actually be better off leaving the company?

KC: Yes Rachel, there are. We've identified – there are three in particular that I – and Kathi may come up with some others. But the first is that if your health is truly suffering in your workplace, it's probably time to find another position, particularly if it's something that's a debilitating illness, and we have seen that happen in certain situations. The second situation where you may be better off leaving the company is if – the very last chapter of our book is about corporate culture and, if you find that the culture of the company that you work at completely goes against your ethics; that is that their business behaviors and their practices are – stand against anything you believe in from an ethical or moral point of view, it's probably much better off for you to leave the company. And finally there are those rare occasions, unfortunately, where individuals are literally targeted by someone for some odd reason and, if you are the target, if you feel constantly terrorized and persecuted by a specific person at work, and that's your boss in particular, it may be better to leave the company. Kathi, would you add to that?

KE: You know, I – we really want people to think this through seriously. I think some people just bolt from a company when it becomes uncomfortable. We would rather people really tried to make it work and took the time to use the techniques that we're talking about, figure out a way to unhook, because sometimes people leave really good jobs because of the people. And if you can figure out a way to get along with the people, 'cause, you know, those people are going to be at the next company. There's people wherever you go, so we don't want you to throw away a good job because the people are tough, so we really suggest that you seriously look at the unhooking technique, and then of course the more advanced, detaching and depersonalizing. Even from a culture, you know you can work in a culture that maybe doesn't fit yours, if you realize you're not going to change it, and it has nothing to do with you.

Rachel Salaman: Kathi Elster and Katherine Crowley, thank you very much for joining me.

KE: Thank you Rachel.

KC: Thank you Rachel.

Rachel Salaman: You can find out more about Katherine and Kathi's work at their website www.ksquaredenterprises.com. I'll be back next month with another Expert Interview. Until then, goodbye.