Big Little Breakthroughs

So, it's very much like... I always like to say that creativity is like your weight, not your height. Try as I may, I probably won't grow 12 inches by next week. But, on the other hand, I can change my weight based on how I behave. And your creativity is the same thing, we all can build and expand our skillset with respect to creativity.

Rachel Salaman: In your book you distinguish between the imagination, creativity and innovation. Could you unpick that for us a bit?

Josh Linkner: Sure. You know, many of us use those terms interchangeably, and I'd define them slightly differently. The way I look at it, imagination is just the idea of coming up with anything that doesn't exist right now. It could have no value whatsoever – so, if I decided to go outside and paint my car purple, that would be imaginative because my car is currently not purple. Although it's not very useful.

Creativity – if you think about it as one step up from imagination – is using your imagination to create something where there's some inherent artistic value. So, in other words, if I created a piece of music and played it for you and people enjoyed it, that would be using creativity. In other words, there's not really economic value, necessarily, but at least there's some semblance of artistic value.

One step deeper then becomes innovation, which I would describe as something that's creative with utility value. In other words, it's something that is inherently useful.

So just using music as a quick example because I'm a musician: if I just played a bunch of weird notes on the guitar, that would be imagination, although not that creative because maybe it wouldn't be organized well. If I played a new song that I wrote, that would be creative, but it may or may not be commercially viable. If I played a new song and it became a worldwide hit and I made $10 million from it, that would be now innovation.

So, I think it's still the same principle – sort of using your mind to come up with something that doesn't exist in the world, but based on either the artistic value or utility value that creates, imagination [then] becomes creativity and subsequently innovation.

Rachel Salaman: That's so helpful because a lot of people think that innovation has to be brand new, it has to be a new way of looking at things. To what extent is that the case, do you think?

Josh Linkner: Well, we often misunderstand what innovation is all about. In fact, we often think that it only counts if it's a "change-the-world idea," or it's worth billions of dollars or pounds. But the truth is that innovation can count in many different levels, and we can make small innovations actually much more easily and at a lower risk tolerance.

So, the new book that I wrote, "Big Little Breakthroughs: How Small, Everyday Innovations Drive Oversized Results," is all about cultivating these small daily acts of creativity. Think of them as micro-innovations.

And the reason, I think, it's productive for people is that, first of all, it's less risky – you're not betting your career or your company on it; it's within the grasp of all of us, you don't have to be the CEO to pursue everyday creativity; they add up to big things, so lots of small wins do add up to big, meaningful gains; and you're actually building skill at the same time, so you're developing and building that creativity muscle, if you will.

So, I think it's a much more productive and lower risk approach – rather than taking these wild, crazy-risk bets – to cultivate high volumes of micro-innovations, which can add up to great things.

Rachel Salaman: And one of the things you stress is the importance of habits, and you call this "building the muscle." How can we know which habits we should cultivate and which we shouldn't?

Josh Linkner: Good question! Well, in the book I cover a number of habits, from people all over the globe, in fact. I interviewed CEOs, billionaires, celebrity entrepreneurs, very famous artists and musicians, and tried to decode what do they do every day – what do they do when they wake up? How do they think about building their creative capacity?

In terms of what's a good habit versus a bad habit, I think if you're focusing on things that restrict your imagination – in other words, things that are generally fear-based – that would probably not boost your creative ability. Whereas, if you're focusing on things that help you become more expansive in your thinking, generally speaking that's a good approach.

Just a little bit more detail though: I do a five-minute-a-day habit, which I cover in the book, so again, five minutes a day is not that taxing, and I'll just tell you a couple of things that I do. One of them is, in software engineering they say, "If you want to change the output, you have to change the input." So, I spend literally one minute a day just sort of gobbling up creative inputs – I might watch a live musician play on YouTube, I might look at a painting, I might read a poem, but essentially, I'm absorbing the creativity of others to get my juices flowing.

Another thing that I do is that I spend one minute giving myself a bit of a creativity challenge. It's sort of like working out your creativity muscle. So, the challenge might be something like, if I had to take 10,000 ball bearings and market them as a new type of product, what might that be? And the goal isn't to necessarily create [a] tangible work product, it's more to give yourself creative practice in a low-pressure situation. So even those slight, little practices on a daily basis can truly add up to pretty big material gain.

Rachel Salaman: Yes, I wanted to ask you about another of your own personal tips that you share in the book, which is the practice of having "untouchable days," where we eliminate distractions, I suppose, is one way of putting it. Could you tell us about untouchable days and how they can help?

Josh Linkner: Sure. I borrowed this from a friend of mine, who's an author in Toronto named Neil Pasricha. He came up with a brilliant idea, I thought, and I cover it in the book. But the notion is this: most of our professional days, five days a week, are organized with a whole variety of meetings and sometimes we're on phone calls, etc., and it leaves very little uninterrupted time to focus on creative work. So, what he suggests is reorganize your schedule, to the extent that you can, and smash all the meetings and phone calls into four days, leaving one day remaining, which he defines as an untouchable day.

I tried this about 18 months ago, and I have to say it was the biggest boost to my productivity in years. So, what I do is... The problem is, it's hard to get very creative when you know your next meeting is 11 minutes away. So what this does is, I smoosh all my meetings and calls into four days, leaving this one beautiful day open from all distraction.

I turn off the internet, I shut down my phone – my wife knows how to reach me in an emergency, so that's about it – and it gives me the space and time to really express my deep creative work. So, the key to this principle is, I'm not spending more time, I'm not actually adding more hours to my work week – I'm just reorganizing it in a way that supports the creative process.

Rachel Salaman: Now when you talk about untouchable days in the book, it's in the section about "conditions" – the conditions that we need to have these big little breakthroughs. And one of the key conditions that you mention here is permission to fail. The importance of learning from failure is fairly mainstream now, what's different about your take on it?

Josh Linkner: Yeah. Well, when you mention conditions, I often think of a greenhouse. And a greenhouse is a perfect condition for plants to grow. I think as leaders building organizations, it's incumbent on us to build similarly ideal conditions for creativity to grow, and one way to do that... You're right, I think the idea of failure, broadly speaking, learning from failure is accepted. But the question then becomes, how do you implement that in an effective way? And it really gets into creating rituals and rewards that support the responsible risk-taking process.

In the book, I interviewed, as I mentioned, people from all over the world, but I really didn't focus on the biggest companies. We already know that Amazon and Netflix and Apple are creative, so I tried to find the untold stories. And one of them, actually, is right there in the UK.

I interviewed a man named Trewin Restorick. And Trewin is a very kind of normal guy – he's not a billionaire, he doesn't have 30 PhDs, he's a normal guy. But he runs a non-profit organization called Hubbub, right in central London.

Anyway, he does a pretty cool ritual. He's got about 55 people on his team, and I was asking him, "How do you create these conditions to get people to take responsible risks?" And here's what he does: every Friday he has a ritual called F-Up Fridays – and he says the whole word. I'll be respectful and just use the abbreviation, but anyway, F-Up Fridays – he brings his whole team together, all 50-something people, and they have a brown bag lunch, and one-by-one each person stands up and shares, what did they "f-up" this week and what did they learn from it.

When eventually they get to somebody who didn't "F" something up that week they say, "Well why not? What are you going to try next week?" So, this simple ritual actually builds the premise of taking responsible risks and the importance of creativity, and the fact that innovation is part of everybody's job at that organization, right into their culture. And think about the impact that that has on the DNA of this team, again, putting their creativity forward.

Rachel Salaman: Is it important though to get the balance right between encouraging failure like that and encouraging success?

Josh Linkner: Yes, it's a good question. I mean, I don't think that the goal here is to aim towards failure – you're not encouraging people to screw up, because nobody wants to screw up, nobody wants to have a mess. But I think it's critical to recognize that there's no real breakthroughs without some stumbles along the way. In other words, setbacks and failures are, sort of, part of the process. And it's important that we recognize it – not aiming for failure but recognizing that that's part of the route to getting to success.

You know, it's funny, when we hear other people's stumbles, we extend compassion, but when we screw something up ourselves, we tend to be very hyper-critical. And I would suggest that when we can give ourselves the freedom to fail – the compassion that it was a well-intentioned shot, you missed, but you learned and grew from it – that's a much more long-term productive approach, not to enable failure more, but ultimately to enable success.

Rachel Salaman: Yes, and you directly address rebounding from a failure or after a failure in your book, where you introduce us to the acronym, "SLIP" – Stop, Look, Investigate, Plan. It's in your section called "Fall Seven Times, Stand Eight." So, could you take us forward into that idea?

Josh Linkner: Sure. So, in the back half of the book, I cover the eight core obsessions of everyday innovators. And what I've learned from studying creativity and innovators all over the world for the last 20-something years, is that there are certain mindsets and patterns that people tend to embrace, to really drive these principles on a daily basis. And the good news, by the way, is these are portable. I mean, each of us can put these into practice rather quickly.

So, the principle that you're describing is called "Fall Seven Times, Stand Eight," which isn't just dogged persistence, but rather it's the fusion of creativity and resilience. It's, again, recognizing that failures are a part of the process. And then, as we rebound from those, how can we learn and how can we grow from them.

Inside that chapter... You're referencing a very specific technique, and I've tried to show not only fun stories but very tactical approaches that people can use. And this acronym called SLIP, essentially, is when you recognize that something has gone wrong, rather than just continuing to perpetuate the error, you can use this approach. And it goes like this: let's say you were on a diet, it's an easy example, and one night you went out with your friends and you ate a bunch of pizza and drank too much wine. So, the first thing you need to do is "stop." So, the next morning, instead of throwing up your arms in defeat and saying, "Well I'm just going to go and have a bunch of doughnuts and screw my diet," you say, "OK, this happened, let's acknowledge it, and I'm just going to take a minute to be conscious of it, and I don't need to keep eating pizzas." So recognizing that we can stop the behavior that's not working.

The next thing is to "investigate" it, in a very non-judgmental way. "Why did I do so much pizza eating last night? What were the conditions that caused this?" And you sort of reflect on it, in a non-judgmental way. (I'm sorry, the second one is "look," so you sort of look at the situation. Then comes "I." Again, you're investigating why you did it) And then, crucially, the "P" – the last step in it is to "plan." To say, "OK, next time I'm out with my friends what could I do differently?" It's just, sort of, pre-cycle some tactical things that you might be able to do next time a similar situation occurs.

So, for example, if you're out with your friends next weekend, instead of eating so much pizza you might say, "I'll drink a glass of water in between every slice of pizza to decrease my intake." Or, "Maybe I'll eat a salad first to fill me up a little bit, so I eat fewer slices of pizza."

Anyway, the Stop, Look, Investigate, Plan is a really good way to arrest a behavior or approach that's not working, in a very deliberate, non-judgmental way. And then recalibrate so that you're able to perform better going forward.

Rachel Salaman: And looking at failure from a slightly different angle, you also talk in the book about the importance of testing and experimentation, which is bound to include some failure. What's your advice here?

Josh Linkner: I'm so glad you brought that up. Yeah, one of the core obsessions that I cover, I call it "Open a Test Kitchen," and as you probably know, many restaurants and food companies have a test kitchen, which is sort of a safe environment where they can, as it implies, test and experiment.

Too often, we think of innovation as a single lightning bolt of inspiration from the heavens that comes out perfectly upon launch, and that is basically a fantasy. True innovation happens by not only coming up with an initial idea that might be interesting, but most initial ideas are directionally cool, but not perfect.

So, the more practical, less risky, approach here is to run lots of little experiments, lots of little tests. And take the results from those tests and experiments and tweak them, ultimately to uncover a real innovation. I think that's a good way for each of us to think about it – that, as leaders, we should all be running concurrent experiments, five or 10 a week even, recognizing that 80 percent of them may fail, but that's OK. Because these experiments are as little and cheap as you can make them: fixed time, fixed money. Then the ones that do show merit, then you can double down on those experiments.

Last thing, I'll just say quickly, is that the optimal number of failed experiments is not zero. You know, we think again that failure is a terrible thing, but if you have zero failed experiments, that essentially implies that you're not trying hard enough or that you're not taking enough bold approaches to your work. When you look at the wildly successful companies in Silicon Valley, you know, they often have a failure rate of 20, 30, even 40 percent of the experiments that they attempt. So, when we screw one little, teeny thing up, let's not go away and quit and be ashamed, let's say "OK, that's part of the process. Let's run the next experiment."

You're listening to Mind Tools Expert Interviews, from Emerald Works.

Rachel Salaman: Another takeaway that caught my eye was that you say we need to "break it to fix it," and you use Lego as a case study for this. Can you just give us the broad strokes of the Lego story now and what we can learn from it?

Josh Linkner: Absolutely. So, the principle, Break It to Fix It, is essentially the opposite of the advice that many of us have been told. We've been told, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I think that's just terrible advice, like why would you wait until a system or a process has failed before getting an upgrade?

So, the principle is really taking this proactive approach to examine things that might be working just fine today, to deconstruct them, examine them, and look for ways to rebuild them in a better, more modern, manner.

Often what happens is that true success comes from a series of these rebuilds or upgrades. And the story of Lego, you know, a furniture maker in Billund, Denmark – it was a very small town – made wooden furniture, and his factory burned down. So, he said, "Well I'd better try doing something else." And he eventually started making wooden toys. But then he broke that and started making plastic toys out of injection molding, but these were toys that were already assembled. Then, eventually, when watching kids play, he saw how they loved building things, he broke that approach to fix it and, instead of building assembled toys, he started creating these interchangeable blocks.

When you study the Lego success – now they have the largest toy company in the world – there's been literally dozens of these major turning points where the organization broke it to fix it: they decided to become not just a toy manufacturer, but they opened up theme parks, they decided to create things for kids using robotics and experimentation, they eventually got into the licensing business and created movies.

So, each of these transitions... As the company grew over time, they had to confront their conventional wisdom, they had to sort of stick their finger in the eye of traditional thinking and, exactly that, break it to fix it.

Rachel Salaman: I think you sum this up in a three-word tip, if you like, "deconstruct, examine and rebuild."

Josh Linkner: Yeah. You know, back to being tactical, I really wanted to make sure the book was not only inspiring but gave people really specific tactical approaches. So, let's say you're looking at a product or a system or an approach, or even a sales process, and you say, "Well how do I do this?" This three-step system is a very simple approach.

The first thing you do is sort of deconstruct it. In other words, breaking it apart into all the requisite individual components. So, if it was a guitar, that would separate the strings from the wood, from the pickups, from the tuning heads, and really look at each individual component separately.

Once you have that deconstructed, then you examine those individual components and say, "OK, is each one optimized? Could I upgrade one of these components, could I substitute one of these components for something different, could I add something to it?" So, at the molecular level, really, you're starting to look at each component and [asking] are they optimized?

Then you start asking yourself, "Are there ways that I could rebuild this system in a better manner?" And maybe you rebuild it with a different construction approach, or maybe you use different materials.

Ultimately, what happens is the simple deconstruct, examine, rebuild approach helps people truly put this principle into action, and look for ways to upgrade their current systems into much better versions.

Rachel Salaman: Absolutely. One of my favorite chapters in your book is called "Embrace the Weird," and it's full of stories about people who found brilliant solutions by thinking outside the box. You've got zebra-striped cows, bike boxes disguised as TV boxes. Could you share a couple of your favorites now?

Josh Linkner: Sure, yes. This principle is called "reach for weird," and it's challenging people to not just gravitate towards the tried-and-true, the things that we've done historically, but rather to push your creative boundaries and look for those oddball, misspent, unorthodox solutions – the unexpected approaches that can make all the difference in the world.

One that comes to mind is, I'm sure you've gone to the market and you're faced with the unsolvable problem: do you buy yellow bananas or green ones? If you buy the yellow bananas, they're good today but, four days later, the rest of the bunch is all mushy. If you buy the green bananas, you have to wait like a month to have a decent banana.

Well now imagine that you were in the banana business. What could you do? You might just say, "Well that's just how bananas are." Well, here's what happened when one company in Korea decided to reach for weird.

What they did is they organized their bananas in a package by ripeness. So, there's seven bananas in one package, each with a different color, so they range from bright yellow to green. So as each day goes on, your new banana of the day will be perfectly ripe for that day!

Now keep in mind they are the same bananas, but they're packaged in a different way. And the results, by the way, of this weird approach, were significant. First of all, they're crushing the competition in terms of sales volume. Second of all, they're charging three times per ounce of banana compared to the competitive set.

So, a simple sort of oddball, unorthodox approach here, to have a meaningful economic gain, simply because they challenged themselves to reach for weird.

Rachel Salaman: Well, I'm sure some people listening might be thinking, "Well I'd love to be able to reach for weird, but I just don't know how to," and in the book there are quite a few tips for people who want to try this. What are some good ones that we might be able to use in our next brainstorming sessions?

Josh Linkner: One fun approach here is called "The Bad Idea Brainstorm." Many of us, of course, are trying to come up with good ideas, but here's how this new one works. The first 10 minutes of the meeting is spent not coming up with good ideas, but coming up with bad ones. In other words, you brainstorm, "What's the worst idea you can think of, what's a terrible idea, what's an ineffective approach?" And it's a very fun, energizing sessions where you draw all these terrible ideas out on the chalkboard.

But then the second part of the meeting is where you examine each of these bad ideas and ask yourself, "Wait a minute, is there a little kernel, is there a nugget in there that I could take and flip a little bit, polish the edges off, and make it a good idea?" So, by starting with bad ideas, you actually challenge yourself to get more creative, more weird, and then you can always ratchet those ideas back later on, to make them appropriate.

One other fun one, real quick, is called "rolestorming" – rolestorming is brainstorming in character. In other words, you're pretending that you're somebody else. So, if you are in a normal meeting and you had a crazy, weird idea, you might be too afraid to share it because maybe your colleagues will laugh at you, or maybe your boss will criticize you. So, again, we share our safe ideas, but we hold our bold ideas back.

Rolestorming solves that. Because if you're playing the role of Steve Jobs, nobody's going to laugh at Steve for coming up with a big idea. In fact, they might laugh at Steve for coming up with a small idea. So now, you, playing the role of Steve Jobs, are totally liberated – you can say anything you want, with no fear of retribution.

So, by the way, the technique is very simple: you take on a real-world, actual challenge, and each person in the room gets to choose a character. You can be a famous inventor, you could be a movie star, you could be a sports hero, you could be a villain. It's really fun! You get into character a bit, and you'll be blown away because, now you are no longer responsible for the ideas that you generate, you can really push your creative boundaries, and, in fact, reach for weird.

Rachel Salaman: Yes, it's almost like when you think of yourself as someone else you can unlock that dormant creativity that's there. But when you're inhabiting your usual persona, you just can't tap into it.

Josh Linkner: Yeah, that's exactly right. And by the way, the research is so clear that... You mention dormant creativity capacity. All of us, me included, and I study creativity, have huge reservoirs of dormant creative capacity.

Scientific experiments with subjects, even with the slightest little tweaks and conditions or approaches, can yield almost instantaneously a massive boost in creativity. One that comes to mind was a study in Italy, at a university, and they took two groups identically situated, random groups, and they showed them each a little video and then asked them to take a creativity test. Well, one of the groups was shown a really boring and dull video (like sheep grazing in a pasture), but the other group were shown an awe-inspiring video (you know, majestic mountains and bald eagles, and such). Anyway, that was the only difference, and then on the creativity test what they found was that the group who saw an awe-inspiring video, outperformed their boring counterparts by up to 80 percent, just with that little, simple, three-minute video shift.

So, again, I agree with you completely that we have this dormant creative capacity, and it's our job as leaders and as creators to use new techniques, new technology, to bring those ideas to the surface and put them into action.

Rachel Salaman: Now some people might be thinking, "I don't have the time," or even the money, in some cases, "to devote to some of these techniques." But you address that concern in your book, don't you? What's your advice for people with limited resources?

Josh Linkner: Well, I always joke around that if the amount of resources that you had, equaled your level of creativity, the federal government would be the most creative organization on the planet, and start-ups would be the least. And we know of course the exact opposite is true.

So sometimes, when we are in resource-constrained situations, it actually boosts our creativity rather than restricts it. What I would say though is that most of these techniques are very light, in terms of time consumption, and [cost] little to no money. And so we could be very scrappy in our approach, to bring creativity forward.

The other thing, if you're really tight on time, I would suggest is, take 30 days, apply some of these techniques, and take even something as small as 10 minutes a day and use that creativity time to say, "Is there a way that I could save 30 minutes a week?"

In other words, could you use your creativity even one minute at a time? Maybe you move the printer closer to your desk to save a few steps, maybe you change the exact time that you leave your home to get to the office to save time on the commute. It's not that tough of a challenge, if you really work at it, to use creativity to save 30 minutes a week.

If you did that, now you have this incredible gift of 30 minutes, and now that becomes your creativity laboratory time, to now invent other ideas to drive productivity and growth. So, in other words, we can use creativity itself to solve the concern of not having enough time or money to be creative.

Rachel Salaman: So, you have a strategy in your book with a rather unusual name, I wonder if you could explain it to us now, it's the "Dinner Mint Strategy"?

Josh Linkner: Yes. So, I'm sure you've gone to a fine dining restaurant, and you've had a wonderful meal, and before they bring you over the bill, they say to you, "Oh, here's a little bit of chocolate, compliments of the chef," or, "Here's a little pastry to try." That I refer to in the book as a "dinner mint," in that it's unexpected and surprising and really delighting you.

A dinner mint though doesn't have to be food, and it doesn't even have to be physical. I define a dinner mint as a 5 percent or less, extra little creative flourish. And the premise here is that, in the world that we're in – where good service and good quality products are just the ante to play – a good way to stand out is saying, "Is there a way that you could add just 5 percent or less extra creativity, a little extra effort, which can yield a disproportionately large set of outcomes?"

In other words, in a competitive battle, if you're just 5 percent more creative, you might win 70 percent more of the competition that you're facing.

So, a dinner mint could be a gift or a physical thing, but it could be an extra idea, or a little extra work product. Or maybe the dinner mint is the way that you present an idea or proposal to a colleague or to a customer. So, the whole premise here again is delivering your work with excellence, but then challenging ourselves to say, "Is there a little extra flourish, or creative upgrade, that I could add to make my whole thing stand out?"

Just one quick example of that. There's a small hotel in Orlando, Florida – and it's not a Disney hotel, it's just a normal, sort of moderately priced hotel, like thousands of others. The hotel itself is almost identical in terms of the hotel and the beds and the location and the cost, but there's one little "dinner mint" that they do differently.

Outside, by the pool, there's a red telephone that's mounted on a wall. And there's not even [a] dial on it – you just pick up the phone, and immediately on the other end you hear someone say, "What flavor?" What this is, is a popsicle hotline! So, you might say, "I prefer orange." And within a few minutes, a person who is on the staff of the hotel comes in white gloves and presents you an orange popsicle on a silver tray.

Well, the extra popsicle cost is way less than 5 percent of the overall cost of running this hotel, but because everyone knows that there's a popsicle hotline, where do you think the children want to stay when they're in Orlando? As a result of this simple, creative dinner mint, they are completely way far ahead of their competition – the hotel is always booked and they're winning in a big way.

So, the strategy that I encourage people to embrace is simply called "don't forget the dinner mint" – look for a teeny little creative flourish to "plus up" your offering and you'll enjoy a huge, outsized return on net investment.

Rachel Salaman: Fantastic, I must try that one. Well, we've covered a lot of ground in this discussion, what would be your one or two top tips for someone who wanted to unlock more of their creativity, starting today?

Josh Linkner: Well, as mentioned, you know, we often think of creativity as these big, unapproachable acts, and it feels so overwhelming that we just don't do anything, we revert to the status quo. So, my biggest sense of encouragement is simply letting people know that we are all creative in our own ways – you don't have to be a good painter or musician or dancer to be creative, you can be creative in your own craft or profession.

So, knowing that, I would just encourage people to start not big, but to start small – take baby steps. Look for little, teeny-tiny acts of creativity on a daily basis. And what happens when you do that is, again, it's way less risky, it's way more accessible, and over time you start to build creative capacity, you're building the skills. And ideas start to become contagious, you know, one small idea a day becomes three small ideas a day, and by the end of the week now there's six ideas, and then there becomes 15 ideas, and then it just becomes part of who you are.

So, if you start small, cultivate micro-innovations that are low risk and easily accessible, you'll start to be on this incredible pathway that will unlock a real competitive advantage for you.

I always say that the whole book is not about just fun inspiration, it's about how do we use this resource, that all of us have but we don't all use regularly, to unlock and achieve the outcomes that we care about the most? If your outcome is a business outcome, or a career outcome, or a health outcome, or a family outcome, or a community outcome, the notion is, how can we cultivate this resource and use it to drive better outcomes, the outcomes that we each care about the most? That's what I think people will find in the book, and that's what I definitely encourage people to do.

Rachel Salaman: Josh Linkner, thanks very much for joining us today.

Josh Linkner: Truly my pleasure being with you.

Rachel Salaman: The name of Josh's book again is, "Big Little Breakthroughs: How Small, Everyday Innovations Drive Oversized Results." You can find out more about him and his work at biglittlebreakthroughs.com, where there's a wealth of related resources.

I'll be back in a few weeks with another Mind Tools Expert Interview from Emerald Works. Until then, goodbye.