The Procrastination Cure

Jeffery Combs: Actually, Rachel, a lot of people don't understand procrastination, that's why they continue to do it. It's amazing what an epidemic it is. My definition of procrastination is putting off an intended action, objective or goal for future tense that seldom gets done. Procrastination breaks down to a couple of key items, and if you can start to understand why you do what you do, you'll have a lot less tendency to do that which is familiar.

Rachel Salaman: Tell us a bit about your own background in this area, what positions you to write this book?

Jeffery Combs: What positions me to write this book is I've had some challenges with procrastination, but overall in my life I'm not really a procrastinator, but like many people I'll procrastinate in a few isolated areas, but what allows me to write this book is I've been developing sales teams and sales forces for the last 25 plus years. A large percent of the population of my sales force procrastinate, they get ready to get ready. I've also coached 6,000 clients and devoted 60,000 hours to assisting people to understand why they do what they do, and I've been doing that for 15 years, and a very large percent of my coaching clients procrastinate when it comes to changing your identity or starting a new business or a new venture.

Rachel Salaman: How much do you think procrastination is learned and how much are you actually born a procrastinator?

Jeffery Combs: Well in our DNA we have a code which connects us to our genealogy, and we may have parents that are procrastinators, but that doesn't mean that we're going to be a procrastinator because our parents are. Now it is my belief that procrastination is conditional based on behaviors, and procrastination is really about events that are perceived as painful or events that we rebel against.

Rachel Salaman: Right, and I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about that a bit later in the podcast. In your book you discuss six types of procrastinator. How did you come up with the categories, and how useful do you think it is to generalize like that?

Jeffery Combs: Well it's very useful, it's similar to generalizing a personality type. You know, Socrates is really one of the fathers of the personality types or temperaments, so I based my procrastinator types similar to personality types, so I based my procrastinator types similar to that. You know, many of my clients will tell me "Oh my God, I'm all six of those." Well it's just like a personality type, you may identify with any particular personality type or temperament, but we usually have one that is more dominant than the others. So the procrastinator types are just six of the most common commonalities of how and why we procrastinate.

Rachel Salaman: The first one you talk about in the book is the "neurotic perfectionist," can you tell us about that type?

Jeffery Combs: Well that type of perfectionist typically is so controlled in their perfection that they're paralyzed, they are so neurotic about everything perfect or being right that they continue to get ready, to get ready. A good picture of them would be, and it's in my book, it would show someone sitting at a desk typing the first chapter of their book, and they have about 400 wadded up pieces of paper on the floor because they can't get passed the first chapter because everything has to be perfect. This type of procrastinator personality takes perfection to an extreme and then uses perfection as an excuse not to perform or start. Procrastination becomes a denial, it's a way to avoid perceived pain, that's the number one reason that people procrastinate because their ego, their left brain, their analytical mind starts to tell themselves a story and the story is about perceived pain. To avoid the pain we procrastinate, that's why we "intend" to do something, that's why we put it off, that's why we're going to do it later. We're going to start a new diet, we're going to go to the gym, we're going to start a new business, we're going to write a new book, we're going to lose weight, we're going to do this, we're going to get a new career. We're "going to," see, that's a future tense with no commitment statement.

Rachel Salaman: How does that relate to the neurotic perfectionist then?

Jeffery Combs: Well it's the same situation, they get ready to get ready; they use perfection as an excuse to not perform. Perfection can still be used admirably. I'm a neurotic perfectionist in many ways, but I take my neurotic perfection and turn it into results. Not everyone does that. Now this is a generality, but most people who are neurotic about their perfection use it as an excuse to stay in control of not failing or not achieving or not changing.

Rachel Salaman: So what are some useful ways for people who are inclined that way to approach their procrastination, what are some tips for them?

Jeffery Combs: Well it's going to be the same tip for all the procrastinator types, it's going to be you have to understand why you do what you do, you have to be aware of your tendencies to procrastinate. If you don't understand why you do what you do, your emotional engine that searches for a set of familiar feelings, which is referred to as a reticular activating system, will take you right back to that which is familiar, which is why it's important to have the awareness to understand you're about or in the process of procrastinating. What happens is that neurons that wire together fire together in our brain, familiar feelings start to create familiar neurons and pathways, and all of a sudden we're right back in the same situation doing what we planned not to do. So to be able to change this behavior you have to be aware of it.

Number two; any time you feel yourself getting overwhelmed, because that's also another key to procrastination, is a large percent of society that procrastinates feel overwhelmed, they can't clean out their garage, they can't clean off their desk because it's so big. You want to use a set of words, you have to change your language, you have to change your language about the perceived outcome. Then also you can take deep breaths, because any time you take a deep breath all the cells that have collapsed based on familiar feelings actually expand, if you've ever seen it under a microscope. Instead of collapsing and going into fight or flight, or overwhelmed, anxiety feelings, if you take a deep breath those cells actually expand rather than contract. It gives you a whole different space in your body to produce or perform rather than procrastinate. Key to any transformation is your word choice; change your words, change your actions, but if you continue the same actions and the same words you'll get the same result. This is why, here's the number one term that leads to procrastination, "need to." "Need to" is a future tense with no commitment. If I say "I am," that's now. If I say "I'm committed," if I decide, then I will, but if I use words that are non-committal I'll get the same result. So words are key to the transformation, along with the awareness.

Rachel Salaman: Another common type you talk about as well as the neurotic perfectionist is the "chronic worrier." Could you tell us what they look like?

Jeffery Combs: Well they look like they chew their fingernails down, and they look like our grandmother, so they look like people who say "We Smiths, we Joneses, we're from the wrong side of the track." They're using a set of language that's toxic or that is fear-based and anxiety-based. They typically are the... you've heard the term "worry wart," or you've heard this term, "waiting for the shoe to drop," they typically find the flaws in anything they do before they start, and they have a very worst case scenario type of personality and they talk themselves out of opportunities, so that it becomes their excuse not to perform. So once again procrastination leads back to pain avoidance, so to avoid the pain of change or avoid the pain of regret they don't start, and they use worry, and then their language also edifies the worry, their language talks them out of the opportunity to begin or change.

In Europe the sport is called football, in America its American football, in Australia there's rugby, and then there's Australian rules football, and then there's all the other type of sports that are perceived to be dangerous. It's very common for a parent, a mom, a father, a mom, a dad, to hold the child back because of the perceived pain of injury, and this would be another case of worrying. I've coached many people who wanted to play a sport but their parents wouldn't let them play, they had lessons, then that creates disappointment and regret, and then in their life they say "I wished I would have." That's a classic case of a chronic worrier holding a child back because of the perceived pain of injury. When a situation like that happens the term is "hard wired," it becomes hard wired in our unconscious. 11/12ths of what most of society does is unconscious, only 1/12th is conscious of most of society. That's why it's very easy to slip back into familiar behaviors, patterns, conditions, and other situations that lead to disappointment. Procrastination always ends up in these three situations; guilt, shame and disappointment.

Rachel Salaman: Well back to the types, and you say that you identify with the next one we're going to talk about, which is the "rebellious procrastinator." So what's behind this person's procrastination and what could they do about it?

Jeffery Combs: Well this type of personality takes non-conformity to extremes. I wrote a book called Psychologically Unemployable. So, I mean, it's great to be able to tell yourself that "Hey, I can't work for someone else, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm self-employed," but if you rebel against your own structure of if you just try and wing it on talent alone, wing it, and that's what a lot of people do, they're not structured, they don't have a system, they don't have a routine, they don't have a method. This type of personality has an inflated ego and they think they can get by on talent alone. They're the type of person that would say "I can sell ice to an Eskimo, I have the gift of gab." Well that's great, but they typically don't have a sales structure, and then they just try and talk people into situations rather than actually really providing the value and service of particular products and services. This is the type of person that won't practice, it could be a soccer player says "Hey, I don't really have to practice like the rest of them, I'm just going to show up in the game." This is the type of person often times that will be very expressive and creative in their style and language, they also tend to talk too much. They also have a conflict consciousness and they spend much too much time in conflict rather than in production.

Rachel Salaman: Right, so they might procrastinate on certain tasks that they don't think are important and go straight to the ones they think are important?

Jeffery Combs: Right, and then they try and get by on talent alone, and talent alone isn't good enough to get you to your promised land usually.

Rachel Salaman: And another type you talk about is the "angry giver," which is an interesting idea, what are their characteristics?

Jeffery Combs: They have an identity that's based on giving and serving, they give, give, give and they take care of everyone else, they're the people pleasers of the world. They go to great lengths to serve, and the "better to give than receive" model is their identity. They take care of everyone else first, they tend to let their obligations and their own personal situations go by the wayside, and they procrastinate on doing some of the things that are important for them and they'll do it for everyone else, but they seldom take care of their own requirements, and this often becomes part of their identity as they grow up. This type of personality often times becomes a surrogate parent in a family, often times it's the first child, it can be the middle child, and they take care of everyone else and they feel disappointed because they don't get the recognition they feel they deserve. There's nothing wrong with giving, but a large percent of society tends to over-give, that way they don't really have to produce, they can give for someone else but they don't produce for themselves. They usually end up with poor health, overweight, bad feelings, a lot of challenges come out of this type of personality type. They also have challenges with money, because they give, they're not comfortable with receiving.

Rachel Salaman: The other two types you talk about in the book are "the big deal chaser" and "the drama addict." Looking at all six of the types, in your experience which is the most common?

Jeffery Combs: The "angry giver," it comprises of the largest percent of society. That's handed down through not only generations, but that's also propagated to keep a society in control. This is a statement that really hinders society, "Better to give than receive." Why is there more impetus put on giving than receiving? Why can't it have equal merit? So giving tends to create guilt, and so a large percent of society has challenges receiving, asking for what they deserve, and then they settle. They procrastinate on really being able to get compensated or be able to receive what they really deserve.

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Rachel Salaman: Well in your book you outline seven habits to help people eliminate procrastination from their lives, and this forms the subtitle to your book, "Seven Steps to Stop Putting Life Off." The first of these is "manage yourself in time." Can you tell us a bit about that, and the power of 15 minutes, which is something you talk about in the book?

Jeffery Combs: I'd love to, Rachel. First of all, if you look at a clock right now, if you look at your clock in your office, you can't manage that clock. That term "time management" is a misnomer. You have to be able to manage yourself and time. Time is the most valuable commodity that we possess, every day we are given a gift, it's called time. Breaks down into increments, 86,400 seconds, 1,440 minutes, 1 hour, 1 day, 24 hours in one day, one day at a time. And success in any endeavors isn't so much about what you do, because you can do and be busy, or you can also learn how to be productive. If you are conditioned to trade time for an employer and you watch the clock and you can't wait to get off work, or it's Wednesday and you're already in Friday or whatever the situation is, well you're not going to be very effective. You have to understand time, there's two situations in time; there should be production time and joy time, but what happens is a lot of people in their production time, they procrastinate the time they devote to production, and they procrastinate and then they feel guilty when they should be enjoying themselves. And then there's also the person who takes production to an extreme, and then they're on a vacation but they feel guilty they're not producing. It's our responsibility to understand the value of time and then devote it into areas of production and of joy.

Rachel Salaman: And the power of 15 minutes that you talk about in the book, can you just explain that?

Jeffery Combs: First of all, 15 minutes, it's a way to break time down. How many minutes are there in an hour? Well there's 60, but if you start to break it into 15 minute increments you can actually start to become very productive in short amounts of time. This is called "bending time." I have my clients who tell me how much clutter they have or their desk is overwhelmed or it's so big they can't possibly start. Well I suggest they break it down into 15 minute increments. I have had people actually... I've had them get two 33 gallon plastic bags and in 15 minutes throw out everything they can possibly throw out in their office that they think they need. It's actually quite a liberating experience, and I'm talking about frantically throwing things away, not sitting there and going through page by page of a fax you have from 1996. I'm talking about throwing junk and stuff away, clearing out the old, letting go of that which is familiar and creating new space for new people and new situations and new opportunities to come into your life. It's hard to attract quality opportunities and situations when you live in stuff, feeling overwhelmed with clutter and drama and chaos and stuff in your life, because that energy just isn't conducive in the law of attraction to attracting prosperity. That type of energy is conducive to attracting more procrastination, because one of the keys of procrastination is getting overwhelmed, and that's what happens, a lot of people get overwhelmed, physically with all their stuff and then emotionally with all their anxieties. So if you can break your situation down into 15 minutes it's amazing what you can accomplish.

Rachel Salaman: And that's actually linked somewhat to the second habit you talk about, which is to set small goals, and that's a concept that many Mind Tools users will already be familiar with. In your opinion how small is small?

Jeffery Combs: For interpretation that would be something you can accomplish, something that's right in front of you rather than something that... here's a word that hinders people, "It's going to be huge, it's going to be big. Oh, this is going to be my year." Well that's great, but it had better be your day, not your year, your year is way out in front of you. Success if about what you do today, not what you do tomorrow, what you do today, because this goes back to time. The only time you possess is now, you don't have yesterday, that's gone, that's history, tomorrow hasn't happened, that's a mystery, what you have is the present, that is now. So in goal getting, and that's G-E-T-T-I-N-G, not setting, S-E-T-T-I-N-G, it's not so important to get the goal than it is to set it. Now we're conditioned to have big goals, to write our goals down, get a vision board and write down 100 goals, 200 goals, 500, 1,000. There's merit to all that, but it's a lot more important that you get goals, you write goals that are achievable or you attract goals that are achievable, and then you build on a compounded effect. The only way you're going to get a bigger goal is to go through the process of it to attract it, and you have to have a system to your goal, you can't just wing it, you can't just pray for a miracle and hope it shows up, you have to have a system, a method. So there's really three keys to that; that's a 90 day game plan, a daily method of operation, and then, most specifically, this item, clearly defined, short-term goal.

Rachel Salaman: So then comes your step "Perform the task itself." Can you just explain to people what you mean by this?

Jeffery Combs: Well, you have to go beyond intention to commitment. You can't just intend to do something, you have to commit to do it. "Perform the task" means your word must become your law. You say "At 8 o'clock I will absolutely be in my office doing this," well you have to follow through on that. If you say "Around 8 o'clock," there's a high probability you won't do it because you're not really committed, you're not clearly defined. So whatever you state, follow through on it, and if you don't follow through on it then you continue to perpetuate your commitment phobic issues, and that's what a lot of people are, they have commitment issues unless told what to do. So if you really want to be free of your anxieties you have to be able to dress them one day at a time, and begin to address some of the situations that keep you stuck, and then be able to perform the task that will get you unstuck.

Rachel Salaman: You recommend that people write things down, this is another one of your steps. Can you give some more details about what exactly they should write down, and where, and how?

Jeffery Combs: By stating it, by getting it where you can see it, whether it's written down or typed you put it in front of yourself. It's a dart board. You can have it in your head, it's not a golden rule that you have to write it down, but it can assist you to be able to see it because it gives you a bulletin board, it gives you a bull's eye. That's the value of stating your goals, and when should you do them? You have to develop your own system for that. I set daily goals, I set monthly goals, I set daily goals, weekly goals, monthly goals, quarterly goals, six month goals, three quarters of a year goal, one year goal. I set goals in increments, I live exactly what I teach; small goals, compounded effect produce daily, be productive not busy, and understand what you get paid for. It's really important to understand, whatever vocation you're in, what is it that you actually get compensated for. Or whatever it is you want to do in life, if you want to run a marathon you have to train for it, you're not going to just show up at the marathon, and you have to have a clear vision of what it's going to look like to finish, because there's the possibility you may hit that mythical wall somewhere between the 15th or the 18th mile, your ego's going to do its best to seduce you into quitting. You have to have a reason bigger than your problem to break through or you'll procrastinate and quit.

Rachel Salaman: The fifth habit that you recommend is "eliminate distractions," which makes a lot of sense. What are some of your key tips here?

Jeffery Combs: Well the key tip, once again, is awareness, you have to be aware of why you do what you do, because if you're not aware you'll continue to do that which is familiar. This is a conscious effort, and it's not hard, it's new. Letting go of the past is really letting go of control, because there's nothing physical, it's all emotional. This is, once again, in your own language style, "I am beginning, I am becoming aware of why I do what I do, I'm a recovering procrastinator." You have to be able to be objective about your tendencies, "I have a tendency to, I'm most likely to," you want to look at some of your tendency patterns and behaviors. When people are attempting to release weight, it's important that you understand why you avoid exercising, it's important you understand why you avoid the walk, it's important you understand why you don't follow through on your diet plans or habits, it's important you understand how you end up at the refrigerator when you should be performing. This is one of the keys to procrastination, is that awareness, because that awareness is also what can assist you from being overwhelmed.

Rachel Salaman: And in fact your seventh habit in the book is "learn the skill of self-evaluation," so it's about becoming aware of yourself, evaluating yourself. How can someone go about evaluating themselves?

Jeffery Combs: You evaluate yourself by being candid, by being objective. You can sit in a quiet space and reflect on what you did and why you do what you do, but you have to learn to do it judgmentally without being as critical as one of your parents or one of your siblings were, because that's typically what happens; a lot of procrastination is about pain avoidance. Our ego creates a story that says "You can't do it perfectly, you can't do it right, you don't know enough details, you don't know enough facts. Get more training, listen to more phone calls, read more books." Well this becomes pain avoidance, some of those models can enhance what you're doing but eventually you have to produce.

Rachel Salaman: The habit we haven't talked about yet is an interesting one, "become reward conscious." What do you mean by this and how does it help?

Jeffery Combs: Well once again a reward is something in front of you, it's the prize, you have to have something that's worth fighting for, something that's worth breaking through. If you're going to go through risk you want to have some kind of reward, that would be a goal. So let's say that you're going to perform for eight hours today, reward yourself at the end of the day, reward yourself with a 15 minute meditation, reward yourself with an ice-cream cone, reward yourself, find something to reward yourself for a task well done. Even a simple pat on your own back can be a reward because emotionally we require that, we require love, we require reward, we require recognition, but to get it, you can get some of them by just being a good person, by being a good human being, but you also want to have some satisfaction in a task well done.

Rachel Salaman: So if someone wanted to address their procrastination starting tomorrow, what are the first three steps you would recommend they take?

Jeffery Combs: Become aware of your procrastination tendencies, be objective, be aware of why you do what you do, realize that you're procrastination is about events, you're not a born procrastinator. Number two; be very aware of the words you use. A classic example, Rachel, I went to my dentist's office recently and I handed him my new book, "The Procrastination Cure." Here's immediately what came out of his mouth; "That's me, world's worst procrastinator." Then he proceeded to tell me about his desk, how overwhelmed his desk is, how much clutter he has, how his wife's always getting after him. He goes "I'm going to give this book to my wife, my wife will probably be calling you." She never called me, and he spoke into existence his challenges, he wasn't really aware of them. He has no idea why he has so much clutter, he has no idea why he would say "I'm the world's worst procrastinator." He thought it was funny, but his unconscious didn't, his unconscious agreed with him, and because he says he's the world's worst he'll continue to perpetuate that which is familiar.

Rachel Salaman: And then was there another step you thought people should take?

Jeffery Combs: Yeah, action, it's the magic elixir. You have to have a daily game plan, not a yearly game plan, not a quarterly game plan, not a weekly or monthly game plan, a daily game plan. Success or transformation isn't what you do, it's about what you do daily, and if you don't have a plan for your day, well there's the high probability you'll end up off track or off kilter, you'll end up out of control, you'll end up over here, you'll end up over there, and then you'll wonder why you're buying magazines and chips and Cheetos, because you're not really in the game. You have to take the action today, not tomorrow, not next week, not next month.

Rachel Salaman: Jeffery Combs, thanks very much for joining us.

Jeffery Combs: You are welcome, Rachel, an absolutely privilege to be on your podcast here today.

Rachel Salaman: The name of Jeffery's book again is "The Procrastination Cure: Seven Steps to Stop Putting Life Off." You can find out more about him and his work at www.goldenmastermind.com. I'll be back in a few weeks with another Expert Interview. Until then, goodbye.