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Smarter Ways to Lead
Emmanuel Gobillot on creating the conditions for engagement
Interview by Melanie, Mindtools Content Writer and Editor
Emmanuel Gobillot has spent 20 years as a leadership consultant. Mindtools Content Editor and Writer Melanie Bell asked him what he’s learned and what his core philosophy is…
Can you tell us a little about yourself and your work?
I’m French which explains the unusual name! I moved to the U.K. in 1985 to study and have lived here ever since. For the last couple of decades, I’ve worked as a leadership consultant, author and speaker.
I run a consulting firm with my co-director, sometime co-author, and full-time wife, Katherine. I have two grown-up children, Charlotte and George, whose names were chosen for their bilingual ease, not royal aspirations – they predate the princess and prince!
You mention on your website that you started your consulting career “out of irritation.” What irritated you about the ways organizations typically work, and have you been able to improve on these things?
I began my career in retail banking, constantly thinking, “There has to be a better way.” The frustration came from knowing I wasn’t alone – others wondered too. But few stopped to ask the big questions.
My colleague Shaun often says leaders balance on a wobble board, juggling competing demands from shareholders, suppliers, employees, and customers. What irritated me most was settling for compromises instead of striving to reconcile these priorities in a better way.
A major transformation project at the bank gave me the push to step into consulting. And, when I launched my own firm, I made it my mission to uncover smarter ways to lead. Have I helped improve things? I hope so, but I’ll keep going until the itch is gone!
In one of your videos for Mindtools, you define leadership as “creating the conditions for the positive engagement, with a goal.” What experiences or observations led you to come up with this specific definition? How can leaders apply it in practice?
At its core, this idea is simple: we act either because we have to or because we want to. Leaders can demand compliance through rewards or consequences (contractual effort). Or they can inspire action through a sense of social or moral obligation (discretionary effort). The first is efficient but never as effective as combining both.
Organizations thrive when people go beyond their job descriptions. Innovation and agility depend on discretionary effort. Leaders must focus on creating the conditions for this engagement. It can’t be forced, or it reverts to contractual effort.
As for the practical approach, in every interaction, ask yourself, “Have I made this person stronger and more capable?” If the answer is “Yes,” you’ve fueled the discretionary effort engine. But remember, it’s not what you think you’ve done but how they feel that truly matters.
I appreciate your assertion that leaders can be completely different from one another. Rather than emulating another leader, you say they should aim to “be themselves, more…with skill.” What does that skill look like?
I borrowed the phrase from Goffee and Jones because their formula is both elegant and powerful. Leadership isn’t a responsibility you add to a role; it’s a full-time role. No one can pretend to be someone else full-time.
Integrity, the alignment of thoughts, words and actions, is central to leadership and stems from authenticity. Sharing more of yourself helps others learn and grow. However, as I argued in “This is Not a Leadership Book,” authenticity is often misused as an excuse for poor outcomes.
Effective leadership isn’t just about being authentic: it’s about ensuring your impact aligns with your intent. That takes skill. Developing ourselves and others means identifying the skills needed to make our authenticity constructive, whatever these skills might be. Only “skillful authenticity” truly matters.
You’ve written nine books about leadership, most recently “This Is Not a Leadership Book.” How has your thinking changed from book to book?
I’d say that my thinking has evolved rather than changed. Each of my books explores different aspects of leadership in varied contexts, which has deepened my understanding rather than shifted it.
What has changed most isn’t so much my view of leadership itself, as how I think about it. Too often we focus on leaders in isolation, forgetting that leadership is a social construct. You can’t separate leadership effectiveness from followers, culture, or organizational design...
As I continue to write, these systemic interplays increasingly shape my perspective.
What were your favorite lessons learned from writing your books?
First, I’ve learned that I’m more resilient than I thought. Second, and more importantly, I’ve realized that most people, no matter their role in an organization, show up to work with the genuine intent to do good.
Between consulting, writing books, speaking, and podcasting, you exemplify leadership in your own work. How have you learned to balance these skills to be effective as a thought leader? Is doing multiple things important for leadership?
I appreciate the kindness in your question. While I’m unsure if I qualify as a thought leader, I do have a perspective on juggling multiple roles, inspired by fashion!
Think of an outfit made from multiple busy fabrics – it’ll only work sartorially if these bold fabrics are coordinated. That’s how I approach my work, and how leaders should too.
My activities only become impactful actions when they connect: consulting sparks ideas for research and writing; books open doors to speaking platforms that expose my work to potential clients; new clients inspire fresh insights.
It’s a virtuous cycle fueled by two principles: words are leadership’s tools, and learning is everywhere. My podcast, where I extract leadership lessons from random words, is my training ground for everything else. The lesson is simply that to lead effectively requires learning, communicating, and, above all, striving for congruence between everything you do.
Any final thoughts for our readers who are leaders?
This isn’t just a thought. It’s a thank you. Leadership demands courage. Standing tall and moving forward can be exhausting, but learning is essential. If you’re reading this, it means you have the courage to lead and grow – and that effort makes a difference to all of us. So, thank you.
What’s Next?
At the heart of Emmanuel Gobillot’s leadership approach is inspiring the people you lead to go above and beyond (discretionary effort). To find out if you have what it takes, try our quiz How Good Are Your Motivation Skills?
Authenticity also features heavily in Emmanuel’s profile of an effective leader. For more on that topic, see our article, Authentic Leadership.
And for more of Emmanuel Gobillot’s leadership advice, watch his videos on leadership, power, and creating and communicating a compelling vision.
Tip of the Week
Never Mind Eating Frogs, Try Eating Pressure
By Kevin Dunne, Mindtools Content Editor and Writer
There are lots of quotes about pressure. My favorite is, “it makes diamonds,” which you can’t argue with.
Dealing with pressure in working life is unavoidable: we’re all subject to deadlines of one kind or another.
And of course, it all begins long before work, at school and college. Then there are driving tests.
By and large, we can do the things we’re asked to do but, when the heat is on, we can begin to doubt ourselves.
And I’m with Henry Ford on this one, “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't – you're right.”
So when the pressure’s on, I always take a moment to remind myself, “I can do it. I’ve done it before; I can do it now. Easy.”
Confidence and belief in yourself are key. And, of course, the more you fearlessly confront and conquer pressure, the easier it gets.
For more guidance and tips to build your confidence in yourself, see our article How to Build Self-Confidence.
Pain Points Podcast
They say everyone’s got a book in them. But getting it out can be hard – and most people never do, despite having plenty of knowledge and experience to share. So what stops them?
On Pain Points this week we meet Becky Westwood, an expert in her field as an organizational psychologist, and now the author of a book that's made it to the final of the Business Book Awards. Becky talks about the barriers she had to overcome, and reveals the discoveries she made along the way that can help anyone write their first book – maybe even you!
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Video of the Week
Matt Saunders, Goal Setting With Your Team
Get goal setting right and your team will be informed, equipped, inspired, and able to measure their success.
In this video, business coach Matt Saunders outlines team goal setting at its very best.
Watch Now
News Roundup
This Week's Global Workplace Insights
Pretty Unfair
You can study hard, work hard, never be off sick, be highly productive and creative – but you can still find yourself paid way less than someone more attractive.
Quoting research by career platform StandOut CV, online workplace news portal Worklife reported that “good looks pay dividends in the workplace.”
In a survey of 1,000 U.S. workers, 80 percent believed “pretty privilege” was definitely a “thing” and that conventionally attractive people get paid more.
And funnily enough, people who rated themselves as “extremely attractive” were found to be making $20,000 a year more than their plainer colleagues.
One reason is that people who put more effort into their personal appearance were seen as “more competent and professional” by 80 percent of those surveyed.
In another telling data point, seven out of 10 CEOs rated themselves as a nine or 10 on the attractiveness scale!
This “appearance-based discrimination,” though is not good for business. As Career Nomad CEO Patrice Williams Lindo pointed out, “True leadership is built on results, not reflections.”
We'd Rather Be Home Alone, Thanks
While bosses may increasingly favor employees returning to the physical workplace, their staff have other ideas.
British newspaper The Guardian reported this month that “Nearly half of professionals would consider quitting if their employer forced them back to the office on a full-time basis.”
Citing a survey of 8,000-plus U.K. organizations and professionals by recruitment company Hays, the paper also revealed that 77 percent of the U.K. workforce currently operate a hybrid working pattern, splitting their time between home and the office.
Hays’ chief operating officer Pam Lindsay-Dunn said, “Employers need to realize they are at serious risk of losing top talent if they make a full-time return-to-office compulsory.”
Keeping your hybrid team happy while getting the best from them is a difficult balancing act. See our latest expert video Managing a Hybrid Team for tips and guidance from HR specialist and author Gary Cookson.
See you next week for more member-exclusive content and insight from the Mindtools team!